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Old 01-14-2005, 02:59 PM   #1 (permalink)
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... the benefits of eating "free range" chicken??? I've seen stuff on grass-fed beef - mostly omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acid ratios - and I would assume that it would be similar with the chicken but I haven't seen it in print. Worth the costs???
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Old 01-14-2005, 04:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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How about the benefits of not having meat that is antibiotic laden, debeaked, crammed into a space about the size of their body? Forget the nutritional benefits, look at simply eliminating the downside and getting something that resembles what a chicken should be.

We have a lot of USDA organic certified chickens from my organic meat co-op and the prices are outrageous. Literally 80% more than what you could pay at a grocery store. But that is the price to pay to get healthy meat and try to keep a family farmer in business. Plus, the meat tastes a hell of a lot better, IMO, than non organic chicken.
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Old 01-14-2005, 04:09 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I guess - aside from the humanitarian (poultarian?) aspect - are there actual studies stating that the stuff they put into these chickens and/or cows is bad for humans?
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by vin:
I guess - aside from the humanitarian (poultarian?) aspect - are there actual studies stating that the stuff they put into these chickens and/or cows is bad for humans?
Ditto... that's what I'm trying to get any info on. Kaiser, I completely agree with you - same with the expensive grass-fed beef I buy - but I am interested in finding out if there's any science to back it up.

My wife is tighter than me, when it comes to money, and I feel obligated to justify the expense a little better than what I am now. Just trying to keep the harmony. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm also interested in if there's a difference between the beef and the chicken because of where their fat is stored. Beef has marbling whereas chicken doesn't have much (if any...?) interstitial fat. Don't a lot of compounds get stored in fat? If that's the case, perhaps the "bad stuff" given to chickens doesn't make it's way into the meat...????
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Old 01-17-2005, 01:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Consumer perception of organic food production and farm animal welfare

Authors: Harper G.C.; Makatouni A.

Source: British Food Journal, 6 June 2002, vol. 104, no. 3-5, pp. 287-299(13)

Publisher: Emerald Group Publishing Limited
< previous article | next article > View Table of Contents

Abstract:
This paper is derived from a larger scale project investigating consumer attitudes towards organic food in the UK. Presents focus group results on consumer perceptions, attitudes and behaviour in relation to two key interrelated food trends: organic food and animal welfare. The results indicate that consumers often confuse organic and free-range products because they believe that "organic" is equivalent to "free-range" food. Focus group discussions were conducted to identify the main beliefs and attitudes towards organic food of both organic and non-organic food buyers. Results indicate that, although health and food safety concerns are the main motives for organic food purchases, ethical concerns, specifically in relation to standards of animal welfare, play a significant influencing role in the decision to purchase organic food. The results are consistent with parallel research into consumer concerns about animal welfare, which showed that consumers are primarily concerned about food safety issues. Furthermore, the research illustrates the central outcome that animal welfare is used by consumers as an indicator of other, more important product attributes, such as safety and the impact on health. Indeed, ethical considerations seem to motivate the purchase of organic food and free-range products and, therefore, may be viewed as interrelated. However, such ethical frameworks are closely related, if not contingent upon, the quality of the product, which includes perceptions of higher standards of safety and healthiness. Based on the qualitative data, suggests that the organic market could take advantage of research on consumer motivation to buy free-range products, by embodying ethical concerns as an indicator of product quality.

Keywords: Organic Food; Farming; Green Issues; Consumer Behaviour

Language: Unknown

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1108/00070700210425723
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Old 01-17-2005, 01:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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... a little O/T...

"The caloric proportions of proteins, fats and carbohydrates advocated by USDA’s Food Pyramid and Dietary Guidelines are alarmingly similar to the USDA guidelines for fattening cattle and other livestock;"

I kind of wanted to preserve the LINK TO THIS SOURCE .
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Old 01-17-2005, 02:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I can't think of any studies offhand, but the general rule is that you are what you eat. I eat both free range and normal chickens, depending on how much money I have.
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Old 01-17-2005, 05:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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IMO, free range often tastes better than normal chicken, but not always measurably so. I cannot tell the difference, in taste, between normal and organic chicken.

I have a brother-in-law who always proclaims the superior taste of organic fish, chicken, and beef, sometimes while we are eating it. However, several of those times, it was "normal" and not organic that he was tasting.

I feel inclined to say that I did not trick him (nor did anyone else). He merely assumed that his wife bought the organic stuff, as they usually do, but the wrapper in the trash said otherwise. I will, however, give him the benefit of the doubt; that his view of it's superior taste is psychological, not that he's trying to "sell it."

I prefer organic and free-range, whenever possible. I just don't think it necessarily tastes any better. Sometimes it does...
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnka:
I can't think of any studies offhand, but the general rule is that you are what you eat. I eat both free range and normal chickens, depending on how much money I have.
That's kind of the impetus for this post! I was trying to balance my expense for wild salmon. I, also, buy the "normal" ones but I started wondering why I don't read the same info on the chickens like I do the beef.
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Old 01-25-2005, 12:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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So - is there any study anywhere stating that free range OR organic *anything* is actually better for you than the regular, cheaper stuff?

I'm kind of surprised that we fitness buffs are so skeptical about so much in the exercise and diet world, yet quickly buy into free range and/or organic products in the hope that they are healthier in some way.

Here's a good read: (for a real quick paraphrase, check the last sentence)

http://edition.cnn.com/FOOD/specials...debate.ciampa/

The Organic Debate: Healthier or not?

By Linda Ciampa
CNN Medical Correspondent

With additional reporting by Amy K. Erickson
CNN Medical Production Assistant

(CNN) -- Growth hormones in cows, pesticides on produce and antibiotics in poultry -- these are among the reasons many Americans are turning to organic foods. In fact, sales of organics have surged more than 20 percent each year in the past decade. According to the Food Marketing Institute, more than half of Americans now buy organic food at least once a month.

But whether organic chicken or pesticide-free lettuce represent "healthier" alternatives has long been a subject for debate.

Proponents, such as Katherine DiMatteo, executive director of the Organic Trade Association, cite the fact that organics are grown under strict standards of purity based on the elimination of toxic agricultural chemicals.

DiMatteo says even the soil is better: "The soil that organic is grown in is healthier. This comes from the fact that the soil has nutrient value. Healthy soil, healthy plants."

But any suggestion organic food is somehow superior doesn't sit well with Alex Avery, director of research at The Hudson Institute Center for Global Food Issues.

"Organic foods have never been shown to be healthier, more nutritious or more safe than conventional foods," said Avery, "despite dozens of scientific studies. There is no weight that organic is better or healthier for you."

Avery's institute is funded in part by companies that profit from the sale of pesticides, such as Monsanto, DowElanco and Ag-Chem Equipment Company.

Avery said some organics can make you sicker than conventional food.

"Because organic foods use pathogen-laden manure as their primary fertilizer, organic foods may pose a higher risk of foodborne-illness than conventional foods," he said, adding that damage from pests is likely to be greater, as well, and that could translate to more fungal growth, or colonization by molds. Some of these organisms produce toxins. One of them, aflatoxin, is considered highly carcinogenic.

Carefully wash all produce
DiMatteo said manure is used -- but that restrictions and procedures are used in handling it. Plus, it's only part of the overall soil plan.

"The organic system for soil fertilization includes crop rotation, cover crops, composted vegetable matter and manure," she told CNN.Com.

That's fine, according to the United Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Association, provided the manure is properly composted.

"Uncomposted or improperly composted manure that enters surface waters many contain pathogens and subsequently contaminate produce," the association warned.

Food safety experts say organic or not, consumers have to observe the same rules if they want to avoid getting sick. Thoroughly wash -- even scrub -- all produce. And, if the skin won't come clean, peel it off.

Organic livestock may have had the run of the farm and eaten pesticide-free grain, but that doesn't mean they won't come to slaughter loaded with bacteria. Just like conventional chickens, organic birds can harbor salmonella, E. coli and campylobacter. These can cause anything from a mild intestinal illness to a life-threatening infection. To avoid that, organic chickens (or any organic meat) should be handled the same as a regular product -- observing cleanliness rules in the kitchen and making sure they are cooked to the proper temperature: 180 degrees for poultry, 160 degrees for beef.

What about genetically modified foods?
The other major argument around organic food is whether or not it is more nutritious. Even DiMatteo hedges on this controversial point, telling CNN.Com that there is no difference in nutrient value with regular foods.

If, in fact, organics have nothing much to offer beyond a higher price -- they often cost more than conventional items -- why bother with them at all? Taste is one reason. Some insist that organic products are more flavorful than other foods.

DiMatteo said there are broader reasons to go organic: "Environmental pollution does have an impact on the health of humans. We can definitely see a connection between chemical pest control and the potential for disease."

Plus, those who fear bio-engineered foods may be able to put their minds at ease by buying organic -- not that there's necessarily anything to fear in the first place say proponents of genetically modified foods. However, the Organic Trade Association supports a moratorium on genetically modified foods, known in the trade as GMOs.

The OTA fears that interspecies movement of DNA might one day lead to unwarranted effects on the environment and/or human health. But that is far from the intent.

"Food (might) be modified to provide enriched vitamins, nutrients, improve food quality, make food last longer and eventually decrease the cost of food," said plant biotechnologist Sivramiah Shantharam, with the International Food Policy Research Institute.

Some examples of bioengineering: increasing the protein content of potatoes, making oils healthier and increasing nutrient levels in rice. Shantharam says the benefits don't end with food: "In China, cotton fields are sown with seeds that are genetically implanted with a bacterium that is toxic to bollworms, the larval stage of boll weevils. Without these seeds, the crop would be wiped out."

Organic producers have waged a vigorous fight to keep bio-engineered foods from being included in the government's new organic standards. Some GMOs were included the first time the government proposed those standards, in 1997. They were withdrawn after criticism they included non-organic components-such as food irradiation and the use of sewage sludge fertilizer.

Until the USDA announced its standards, 'certified organic' labels meant a food had been recognized as such under a particular program or law. For example, the California Organic Foods Act has been in place since 1990.

"Sometimes it will be certified by a private program and sometimes by a state program," said DiMatteo.

But no matter how the product is labeled, Avery said the message should be clear: "The label does not imply organic food is healthier, safer or better for you in any way. It's purely a marketing label."
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks, vin, for the post! ... and for the tip!

I do want to read the rest later.
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Old 01-25-2005, 04:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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We're starting to blur some of the issues here. Organic is not necessarily 'free range'.

Nevertheless, this Avery guy makes some sweeping statements, and is clearly on a witch hunt. This part makes it clear that he is incapable of making objective statements on the issue:

Quote:
Avery's institute is funded in part by companies that profit from the sale of pesticides, such as Monsanto, DowElanco and Ag-Chem Equipment Company.
Here is the website for Avery's
Center for Global Food Issues

Some interesting stuff, and there is probably a lot of truth, but as long as they're being funded by massive agricultural and pesticide companies, they lose any journalistic credibility.

But back to the free-range issue: one goal is to get your fatty acids balanced. If you can do that with regular meat while supplementing with flax oil, fish oil - great. In fact, I have a bird in the oven right now that's not free range, but I'll still meet my daily goal of a 2:1 omega-6 to omega-3 ratio.

Another issue is ethics. Many people would rather give their money to local farmers who are more humane with animals than massive slaughterhouses who tear the beaks off of chickens so they can stuff them into smaller cages without pecking themselves to death.
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Old 01-26-2005, 05:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnka:
Another issue is ethics. Many people would rather give their money to local farmers who are more humane with animals than massive slaughterhouses who tear the beaks off of chickens so they can stuff them into smaller cages without pecking themselves to death.
If you believe this...
SOURCE

Date: 9-12-00
AGRICULTURE REPORT - McDonald's Chicken Reforms
By George Grow

This is the VOA Special English AGRICULTURE REPORT.

The American company McDonald's is trying to change the way farmers care for their chickens. McDonald's is ordering farmers who supply eggs to improve treatment of the birds.

The move shows the rising concern among animal rights activists and the public over how farm animals are treated. Some scientists also fear that the present methods of raising chickens increase the risk of diseases that can be spread to humans.

In the United States, the government and egg industry are considering ways to improve egg safety and the condition of chickens. The effort by McDonald's is the first of its kind by any major American food company. More than two percent of all eggs produced in the United States are served at public eating places operated by the McDonald's company.

Last year, an animal rights group called People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals began a campaign against McDonald's. PETA says it called the protest after two years of negotiations with the company that resulted in no changes.

Last month, McDonald's announced to egg producers new rules for raising chickens. The company plans to ban a method called forced molting. To force molting, farmers deny food and water to adult female chickens. This causes the hens to produce more eggs. The European Union has already banned forced molting. McDonald's plans to ban it by early next year.

The company also ordered its egg suppliers to increase the size of boxes where hens are kept. Under the new rules, each hen would have about four-hundred-sixty square centimeters of space. That would be fifty percent more room than the chickens now have.

McDonald's also asked its suppliers to stop removing beaks from chickens. Industry officials say the beaks are removed to prevent the birds from injuring each other.

The egg industry warns that the new rules could increase the price of eggs. It says the new space requirements will be the most costly change.

A spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals praised the new rules. However, he said the added space still does not give chickens enough room. The group says its campaign against McDonald's will continue until chickens are no longer forced into small boxes.

This VOA Special English AGRICULTURE REPORT was written by George Grow.

Source: www.voa.gov/special/
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Old 01-26-2005, 05:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Not to crank up this debate again, but here's an interesting link I found while trying to find stuff on the chicken beaks:

CLICK HERE
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