Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
I generally eat pretty closely to the guidelines that Adam posted, except that I don't restrict my fruit intake.
I find the info. out there on macronutrients and fat loss highly confusing. There seems to be a rising voice again that it's all about calories, and all this insulin-spiking stuff in a bunch of hooey.
All I know from my personal anecdotal experience is that while sticking to a diet that includes plenty of protein, healthy fats, and complex, high-fiber carns, my bodyfat levels are lower than they have ever been (even when my weight was as much as 15-20 pounds less), I generally feel better than I ever have (hardly ever tired during the day, more even-keel), and my blood chemistries are essentially picture-perfect. I used to have high triglycerides, for example, even though I didn't have high cholesterol levels. And now they are low, in the 90's.
I'm sure people can control their weight by only managing calories and not worrying whether their lunch is a jelly and margarine sandwich on Wonder Bread. But I bet they are not steering their blood lipids, triglycerides, and sugar levels toward healthy profiles. I wonder when the government is going to "get it" and bring down their Food Pyramid once and for all??
Originally posted by BamaDave: All I know from my personal anecdotal experience is that while sticking to a diet that includes plenty of protein, healthy fats, and complex, high-fiber carns, my bodyfat levels are lower than they have ever been (even when my weight was as much as 15-20 pounds less), I generally feel better than I ever have (hardly ever tired during the day, more even-keel), and my blood chemistries are essentially picture-perfect. I used to have high triglycerides, for example, even though I didn't have high cholesterol levels. And now they are low, in the 90's.
Good point, and I feel the same. Simply by replacing 'trash' carbs like sugar, milled grain, and sugar alcohol with vitamin-rich fresh veggies and fruits, along with good protein and fat, I've never felt better, and my body comp goals are coming along a lot easier.
Does this plan work for people that are a litle overweight to lose weight, or for people that are thin and building muscle?
QUOTE:This is what I sent him:
1. Eat as many of these vegetables as you desire throughout the day.
Asparagus, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celery, corn, cucumbers, egg plant, lettuce, mushrooms, onions, peppers, pickles, spinach, squash, string beans, tomatoes, zucchini. Of course, oil-based, low carb dressings are fine for dipping, steaming is great, as well as sautéing with garlic (fantastic for fresh spinach with olive oil).
2. Eat as much lean meat as you want: 90 percent lean beef, turkey, chicken, tuna, salmon (any kind of fish/seafood really). (You can eat bacon, ham, and fattier meat, too, but just for the sake of being politically correct, limit these to one to two servings a day.) Use low-carb marinades and rubs to add variety to things like chicken and beef.
3. Especially avoid high-carbohydrate snacks. That is, anything that would spike your insulin between meals. Instead eat pepperoni or cheese (or better yet, pepperoni sticks dipped in soft cheese! or tuna, etc. Also, eat at 1-2 servings of peanuts, almonds, sunflower seeds, and pine nuts per day (great snacks).
4. Allow yourself one to two servings (but only at ONE meal) of the following: whole grain/wheat bread, brown rice, sweet potato, oats/oatmeal (In other words, if you want a sandwich for lunch, eat it. If you like oatmeal for breakfast, eat it.)
5. Limit fruit intake to 2 servings a day. Choose from: strawberries, pears, peaches, apples, and grapes.
6. Have as much coffee (with cream or artificial sweeteners), diet soft drinks, and tea as you like.
7. Drink lots of water. Let's say 16 ounces ever two hours you are awake on top of other beverages.
8. Drink (roughly): 15 grams of protein, 45 grams of carbohydrate (high-glycemic like maltodextrin or dextrose) in 12 ounces of water--half 5 to 15 minutes before your workout, and the rest evenly divided every 15-20 minutes of your workout. (This is basically a "Nutrient Timing" principle.)
9. After your workout, drink 20 grams of protein and 20 to 40 grams of carbohydrate. (These numbers are debatable, but I think they'll do the job quite nicely.)
10. Eat eggs and plenty of cheese. Avoid milk most of the time. (If you love it, limit it to one serving a day.)
Does this make sense. You'll get plenty of carbohydrates but you'll time them correctly and you won't be eating the 'bad" ones when it counts. The idea is that you'll keep insulin levels low all day long (high insulin inhibits fat loss and promotes fat storage) except during your workout, when you'll use insulin to decrease protein breakdown. You'll also eat protein at the same time, to enhance protein synthesis. Plus, by eating before and during your workout, you can workout as intensely as you desire. So it's the best of both worlds: faster fat loss with more energy. In addition one problem with a pure fat loss ketogenic diet is that although you preserve muscle, you can look "flat" because of the reduced glycogen stores. This plan keeps your muscles looking full and feeling big. Basically, it's meat and vegetables. So you don't have the pasta and bread, but you really don't need it if you get creative enough with food preparation. I'd also recommend that if you can sneak a fiber supplement in during the day (BeneFiber or Metamucil) say, 30 minutes before you eat any meal in which you eat the foods that are in number four you'll enhance your results even more.
I want to add something about fruit intake, because I don't want it to be miscontstrued. Fruit is high in fiber and filled with lots of great vitamins and antioxidants. Fructose (the primary sugar in fruit) does not have the same effect on your insulin levels as glucose. That's why fruits are generally low-glycemic foods. So by appearances, fruit is a GREAT food.
But I do say for those who are trying to MAXIMIZE fat loss to limit it. This is generally misinterpreted as me stating that fruit "makes you fat" or that it will be "hard to reach your body fat goals eating fruit". I don't believe this at all, mainly since few people eat large quantities of fruit.
But consider this: At a recent conference, Richard Veech, an oft-quoted NIH researcher who studied medicine at Harvard and got his doctorate at Oxford (I tell you this not because these credentials mean his opinion is truth, but to emphasize he probably knows a lot more about metabolism than any of us ever well; Jeff Volek relayed the following quotes to me from the conf. b/c I couldn't attend) said that fructose is the most potent lipogenic sunstance known. He also said if you want to maximally stimulate lipogenesis, simply jam fructose and fat down a rat's throat. Now that's pretty funny, but it makes you think seriously about fructose intake. Like I said, this is mainly important if your goal is to MAXIMIZE fat loss, or if you are eating lots of foods with high fructose corn syrup.
Overall, I think it demonstrates how we blindly trust that fruit is inherently good, even when science is showing that it can be both good (high-fiber, antioxidants) and bad (lipogenic).
Does this plan work for people that are a litle overweight to lose weight, or for people that are thin and building muscle
Better for those looking to lose weight and maintain muscle, or looking to lose fat while adding a little muscle. It's hard to eat enough calories to generate large increases in size, and you'd need to consciously do so. You'd probably want to add a few servings of whole grains per day as well in order to increase total calorie intake, etc.
Can We ake supplements like Myoplex instead of a meal on this program? Or is it a different kind of plan? And Do you think you can explain this a little bit more? Its kind of confusing to me:
8. Drink (roughly): 15 grams of protein, 45 grams of carbohydrate (high-glycemic like maltodextrin or dextrose) in 12 ounces of water--half 5 to 15 minutes before your workout, and the rest evenly divided every 15-20 minutes of your workout. (This is basically a "Nutrient Timing" principle.)
Adam - Why kind of Macronutrient ratios would someone be looking at for a plan like this? I've read that 40P/30C/30F is good for those looking for fat loss and maintaining muscle. Based on my BMR + Activity level, this would have me consume 300g of protein per day! To me this sounds like quite a bit compared to the 1g/lb body weight I've read many other places.
Does your plan deal too much with the details of amounts, or just mainly focus on the What and When?
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\"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger\"
Super quick update... As of this morning I weighed in at 187 (clothed). A total loss of 15 pounds in just over a month!!
Strength is way up, bodyfat has fallen off, maintaining and even gaining size (although it is much easier for me since I have had a lot of mass in the past).
The way I am eating now is not really so much a cutting diet as I keep calling. It just happens that I am cutting on it because compared to the sheer volume of calorie-dense food I was eating before, it is a significant reduction. I don't really plan to fight to get any lower than around 10%. I will happily maintain that, and can easily continue eating like I have as a new lifestyle.
Outstanding, JP! 15lbs. of the bad stuff kicked out of the body in five weeks, and I can really sense the additional positive mindset from your posts recently.
My wife and I just started on Adam's guidelines this week, and we're in the good ole' sugar withdrawal phase right now. Thanks for posting your progress; it gives us that extra boost to keep it up.
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JP - Good to hear of your progress/come back.
Have you kept track of your nutrient ratio (Protein/Carbs/Fat)?
I'm curious to see whats working for others.
Sounds like we're around the same weight. I'm at 12% fat, and 6'2", so that might change things.
All this talk of progress makes me want to bag up all the pasta and snacks I got laying around and truck 'em to my local food pantry.
This forum's great!
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\"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger\"
siccmadeloc: Yes, you can take meal replacements or supplemental shakes. It's important to eat the vegetables and nuts for the fiber, though. You want several servings of vegetables a day (1 cup of fresh vegetables = one serving) and two to three servings of nuts/seeds.
Quote:
Drink (roughly): 15 grams of protein, 45 grams of carbohydrate (high-glycemic like maltodextrin or dextrose) in 12 ounces of water--half 5 to 15 minutes before your workout, and the rest evenly divided every 15-20 minutes of your workout.
You'll have to tell me what about this confuses you. Basically, just think of it as a post-workout drink, but drink it before and during your workout, too. To give you an example, I take one scoop of NitroTech (20 grams of protein) and one scoop of CellTech (37.5 grams of carbs + 5 grams of creatine) and drink it in thirds--1/2 before my workout, 1/3 during (after about 20 minutes), and 1/3 after. That's it. Then I eat meat, cheese, nuts, and vegetables the rest of the day (I work out in the morning), along with a fiber supplement a couple of times a day. Simplest diet I've ever done.
mountn21: I don't know what kind of macronutrient ratios there are. I kind of feel like it's becoming outdated to calculate those exactly. Don't get me wrong, it can be useful to do so, but for the general public, it overcomplicates things. So this "plan" (it's not really mine, by the way; it's Jeff Volek's with a little bit of my input) doesn't "require" it. After all, there are no magical numbers that represent the perfect diet. Just general guidelines. 300 grams is overkill on the protein. If you follow the "rules" of this diet you'll get plenty of protein and at the right times.
JP: Awesome results. You must be ripped again!?!?
RedLefty: Hang in there and remember not to consciously restrict total calories, especially at first. That will make it easier.
Ok thanks for answerering that 1st question I was stumped for a minute, and for that 2nd one, all I was saying is that, what if its a drink that has 17 grams or protien and 2 grams of carbs, because thats what I bought and I'm out of money, any other way? Like maybe a Protien bar instead? With 24 grams of protien and 46 grams of Carbs? would that work? Thanks Adam
Don't get too caught up in the exact amounts. Your protein drink sounds fine, now add some high-glycemic carbs to it. For instance, Kool-Aid of all things if you want to keep it simple and cheap. I think proteinfactory.com sells maltodextrin etc by itself.
Alrighty, I guess i can get started then, youve cleared up all of my questions and im ready to actually start with this program, Thanks for keeping the answers explanatory and simple
Thanks Adam.
I thought that 300g was a little overkill too!
There's a lot of different methods and plans discussed on this forum. I'm just trying to sort through it and find what works best for me, since I've never really had any kind of structured diet or workout program. Thanks again for the help.
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\"That which does not kill us, makes us stronger\"
Originally posted by Adam Campbell: said that fructose is the most potent lipogenic sunstance known. He also said if you want to maximally stimulate lipogenesis, simply jam fructose and fat down a rat's throat. Now that's pretty funny, but it makes you think seriously about fructose intake. Like I said, this is mainly important if your goal is to MAXIMIZE fat loss, or if you are eating lots of foods with high fructose corn syrup.
I wonder how much fructose and fat the rats were getting?? Reasonable equivalents to what someone eating a healthy diet would consume, or are we talking 4 pineapples, 8 bananas, a basket of peaches, and a vat of Crisco??
I should look these paper(s) up online and read about their findings...
It's not how much they were getting. He was really just making a joke to demonstrate the potent lipogenic properties of fructose.
I can't imagine that it would be a problem if the only fructose you were getting was from fruit. I think the main concern simply has to do with HFCS. (Think about fast food for a minute: High HFCS and high fat--a recipe for obesity.) But it makes sense that if a person wanted to burn fat as fast AS POSSIBLE, they might even want to limit fruit. Note that I said as fast AS POSSIBLE, and that fruit has a lot of other properties that make it very good for you.
Adam, I've been on this since yesterday and everything is going well except have one problem about when you mentioned using kool-aid, I went to the store to buy a pouch of it and it has 17 grams of sugar, is that ok? or should I get something else, n by the way, since im doing this plan, do I eat when i feel like it or stay to eating 5-6 times day? Thanks
Pre/during/post workout is the one time when sugar is advantageous. So that's why Kool-Aid is fine.
Eating more often is better for keeping your metaolism elevated, but as a general rule, besides your workout nutrition, eat when you start to get a little hungry. (Try not to let youself get ravenous, though.)
Adam, I almost follow the kind of diet you prescribed, with a little difference. For example, I take milk and no cheese. Reason being, the region I come from does not manufacture much of low fat cheese. Skim milk is easy to get and I take 250 ml of that each morning along with curd/yogurt. Is that OK?
Also, I read in a post in this forum that you should not consume anything 2 hours pre and post HIIT Session to enhance fatloss. My main goal is fatloss. How will the "nutrient timing" work in case of HIIT? ( I do 3 days of HIIT and 2 days of weight training per week)
Must mention, your posts have been very enlightening.
I don't agree with the eating nothing two hours pre or post to enhance fat loss. Better to eat as often as possible. Better to eat, but to just go ahead and avoid high-sugar carbs, assuming your HIIT sessions are pretty short (less than 20 minutes). You could have some protein before and after (say 10 grams each time) to preserve muscle without inhibiting fat loss.
The physiological stimulus from the right workout is far stronger and more effective for body composition changes than the stimulus from delaying your meals pre and post exercise.
In other words, the benefits of a workout are far stronger than the supposed benefits effects of not eating before or after a workout.
This idea to delay meals is just another of the many, many bodybuilding myths that continue to float around...but are subsequently squashed by science.
I know I am probably just being lazy in not searching this info. out, but I'm curious whether you have a set of eating rules like this for those of us who want to do a bulking cycle. Obviously with the idea of limited fat gain. My general assumption would be to follow these same rules, but eat more calories. It gets confusing with so much info. floating around out there. I am especially wondering whether following rules about P+C meals and P+F meals are beneficial while bulking.
I like Berardi's massive eating reloaded plan. It seems like the general rules are pretty similar, with an extra (if I'm remembering correctly) meal that's just protein and high glycemic carbs, and a greater number of total calories.
I'm really suprised at the "popularity" of my original diet post. I really didn't think it was all that new, except that it had really simple rules, and that it's basically an evolved version of a low-carb diet for weightlifters. Not to mention it includes vegetables. (We should have listened to Mom all along!)
This is off-topic from your question, but the part I would like to see more people do is supplement with a little fiber.
I think orange is best because research shows that people will drink more of an orange-flavored drink compared to other flavors or even plain water. (Thus the popularity of orange Gatorade.) It should also be mixed with water that's chilled to about 36 degrees for optimal taste.
Y'all know I'm joking, right?
Of course, that is real research--that I heard a couple of years ago at a Gatorade conference. (I may have the wrong temperature,though--it's so hard to remember.) Before you laugh--it was in CANCUN in January, all expenses paid! (And you guys thought us magazine editors were COMPLETE schmucks.)
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