Why can't anything be simple? (glucosamine question)

[vin]

So, I'm looking to start taking a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement. I'm training for a triathlon in April, and I know my knees are going to be bothering me more than normal. I typically run twice a week (tops). But, the training will include significantly more running as well as biking.
I have read nothing but good things about this supplement...until I read one article on (of course!) t-mag.
Anyway, if you have a second or five, check it out and let me know your thoughts.
Perhaps just a chondroitin supplement???
I give up!

[Kaiser]

Here's everything you want to know about G+C from a reputable source. http://www.drtheo.com

Read it and come back with any questions you have so BryanC and I can argue from a scholarly versus user standpoint once again.

[bryanc]

I think the more important question is, "What are your reasons for choosing chondroitin/glucosamine as a medication for your knees?" While C/G has been beneficial for many people, it's not a panacea for all types of knee pain.

The other consideration I really think people in general should...consider (and this is a bit of a tangent to the main discussion) is if you're having osteoarthritic pain (i.e. pain from osteoarthritis, and I'm not saying that vin has this) in your knees, should you really be training and competing in a sport in which running (and thus, chronic, repetitive, high loading on the knee joint) is a significant part? Ultimately, this is a personal decision--I guess it's a question of the trade-off between the value of running vs. the long-term viability of the joint.

But, I really don't think ANOTHER discussion about what "joint space narrowing" means from both a clinical and histological viewpoint is going to accomplish anything other than yet another argument about "academics" being too concerned with "semantics". C/G has benefitted many people; and nothing makes a believer more than a personal experience with therapeutic "success". If C/G has worked or works for you as an individual, great! There is certainly little to no harm associated with C/G supplementation. However, I think it's equally important that people make their decisions in a fully informed way, which includes understanding the limitations of the evidence (both positive and negative).

But none of this is terribly relevant to vin's original question.

[vin]

Hey Kaiser -
I was hoping you'd reply to this.
I briefly checked out the site, but will need a few more hours to get all the info I need from it (in between "working").
One quick observation: I find it interesting that most studies focus on the effects of g+c on joints; while the observations on effects that the supplement has on most other body parts/systems goes unnoticed. While this may seem kind of obvious, is it possible that some relatively large side effects go unnoticed simply because they aren't looked for?
Just a thought.
I'll get back to you with any questions/comments after reading through some articles on that site.

Brian

[vin]

In case anybody cares:
(I forgot to post the link to the original t-mag article)
http://www.t-mag.com/articles/154cons.html

[Kaiser]

Wow, Bryan..I actually agree with what you've said 100%! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I especially like the part about whether you want to continue traumatic shock type sports if you have chronic knee (or any kind of lower body joint) problems. I've had to slowly give up or pare back the things I used to love (running, basketball, football, soccer, tennis) in order to remain mobile and functional as I get older. But I've been able to replace those activites with others that are less jarring on my knees (cycling, climbing, lifting).

Interestingly, I was able to do 'ass to the ground' squats for the first time in 12 years the other day. A testament to protecting the knees, strengthening the lower body muscles and, of course, G+C.

[Kaiser]

Vin,

Yes, I'm also concerned about long-term side effects. The longest human trial I've been able to find has been for 5 years. I'm on my 7th year of the stuff, although I recently starting paring back on the dosage. So the long-term effects on humans are not known, although apparently people have been taking G+C in Europe for a longer period of time (however, I don't think there have been long term studies there).

Now in veterinary usage, G+C has a long history of success. Too bad neither of us are dogs, or have useful life spans of less than 12 years. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Jean-Paul]

Hm, if you consider my experience on this stuff as some weak anecdotal evidence, the stuff didn't do SQUAT for me (pun not intended). I have had chronic joint pain in too many places to list here and I have never noticed a difference when I have taken that stuff religiously for any period of time.

[bkred]

I've been taking a glucosamine/chondroitin blend (500/400 mg, 3x per day) for several years. My goal was to address back pain (arthritis). Towards the end of last year I decided the stuff wasn't helping my back any so I went off it. And my knees really started bothering me. So I went back on the stuff. Purely antidotal, and I wouldn't discount the placebo effect, but I think the stuff helps my knees. Doesn't do anything for my back that I can tell though. The t-mag article's comments about glucosamine possibly causing fat gain is interesting. I've added a lot of fat while I've been on the supplement.