Do I need to take these supplements?

[LVRebGirl]

I'm new here and would appreciate some input on whether or not I should be taking these supplements that my trainer recommended. I'm not 100% happy with my trainer (see this thread: http://forums.jpfitness.com/cgi-bin/...f=2;t=000439), but I am happy with the results of my training program so far.

My trainer recommended that I take Whey protein after working out and then the Apex Thermo-Transport Formula:
Vitamin B6 - 30mg
Manganese - 15mg
Chromium - 200 mcg
Citimax (Garcinia Cambogia containing 50% (-) HCA)
- 1500 mg
L-Camitine Tartrate - 350mg
Vanadyl Sulfate - 10mg
GLA - 100 mg
Thermogenic Complex Herbs - 60mg

Here's a brief summary of my situation from my previous post:

I'm 5'2" and weigh 154lbs. According to traditional wisdom I'd be considered obese, but I am naturally very muscular. I played intercollegiate tennis at a Division I school in college and mostly kept myself in shape until having twins 2.5 years ago and then going through extensive physical therapy for 6 months related to a serious car accident.

When I started my personal training program 6 weeks ago I was 158.6lbs. and my body fat % using the calipur (sp?) was 37.4%.

As of a week ago I weighed 154.2lbs. and my body fat % was 31.3%. My Fat Mass was down 11.1lbs. (48.26) and my Lean Body Mass was up 6.66lbs. (105.94).

I'm also a diagnosed Type II diabetic (although currently not clinically diabetic as my glucose levels are stable due to diet and exercise) and am on an 1,800 calorie diet.

I'd love some input on whether these supplements will actually help me. My trainer said that he wouldn't have put me on them when I first starting working out, but he thinks my body is "ready" for them now.

Sandra

[Bill Hartman]

I think I would ask him whether he gets a bonus for selling all the supplements first. Then ask him to explain in detail with references what he meant by the fact that "your body is now ready for them" in addition to the metabolic process that will be altered by such an elaborate assortment of pill, powders, and potions.

Regardless of his answer, I think I would then publically embarrass him by yanking his pants to his ankles in the middle of the gym just prior to dropping a 45 pound plate on his big toe while screaming at the top of my lungs "YOU'RE FIRED!"

Sounds like they're using the Apex training system (also providing "nationally recognized" personal trainer certification!!! ) which is a great tool for selling personal training services and supplements. I have a buddy who is a gym owner nearby who is thrilled with the profits he's gained by implementing the system.

I'll bet you $250,000 that you can achieve your desired goals (within the capacity of your genetics of course) by eating food and exercising.

Do something for me...take your thumb and index finger and put them as close together as you possibly can without touching them together...that's the difference that those supplements could possibly make.

Eat food, strength train, and burn a lot of calories in a short period of time.

Usually the simplest answer is the best one, and I don't think he has any concern for your health in general or your best interest in mind.

Bill Hartman, HARTMAN Certified and Mother Approved

P.S. Sorry for the rant. Some things just rub me the wrong way.

[Jean-Paul]

Hey Sandra,
In looking at some of the supps you are taking here is my take on some of it. I would also like to get the feedback of some of our other forum members on these, but here is my quick and dirty assessment.

Vitamin B6 - 30mg
Manganese - 15mg

No problems with these, but a question. Why not just hit you with a full blown B COMPLEX vit?

Chromium - 200 mcg

Which form? Chromium picolinate was one of those hyped supplements in the late 80's that turned out to be a huge disappointment. I would see its only value being as a handy glucose disposal agent for a person on a ketogenic diet, which I wouldn't recommend anyway so nevermind.

whey pro after a workout

That one seems okay. That is the best time to ingest high quality protein. What brand are you taking?

Citimax (Garcinia Cambogia containing 50% (-) HCA)
- 1500 mg

Isn't this a fat burner of some sort? Sounds familiar, but I can't recall at the moment.

L-Camitine Tartrate - 350mg

I presume you are referring to L-carnitine which is also an over-hyped fat burning supplement.

Vanadyl Sulfate - 10mg

Wow! Feels like a VH1-"where are they now" moment here... Never thought I would ever hear about that one again. Another great disappointment from the 80's!

GLA - 100 mg

GLA or CLA?

Thermogenic Complex Herbs - 60mg

Which thermogenic herbs? Are we talking ephedra alkalides here? Possibly combined with caffeine and and willow bark (asprin)? That one sounds a bit to vague. I would find out what he has you taking here.

All reading these supplements did for me was confirm the total irresponsibility of your trainer. People like him can truly do more harm than good. Did he even ask about your medical history to find out if you were diabetic or not? Putting you on some combo like this is risky, and most of the stuff he has you taking is not even worth taking. They were trendy in the 80's, but most trainers [should] know that that stuff is bunk. I hate to sound repetitive, but you really need to replace that trainer ASAP. He isn't worth it even if he were free with your membership. Misinformation and lack of interest in his clients' histories are pretty major issues. He may have a good personality (although just hearing the things that he has overlooked would make me lose too much respect to even give that a chance), but that in and of itself is not worth money that you are spending to work with an EXPERT. You have been misled.

Keep up the hard work though. You should pat yourself on the back for your own effort!

[Jean-Paul]

HA! Bill, looks like he rubbed us BOTH the wrong way (My post went up a minuted after yours did griping about the same thing!).

Frankly, I like your solution better than mine. This guy needs a good dose of humiliation. Did you read the other thread where she talked about her training experience with him? (It was in the training forum).

[LVRebGirl]

I don't think this was clear in my original post, but what I listed were the "ingredients" of the supplement he thinks I should use, which is the Apex Thermo-Transport Formula.

The chromium is Polynicotinate

You are right that I meant L-Carnitine

GLA is Gamma Linolenic Acid

For the thermogenic complex herbs it says "from Gymnema Silverstre, Bitter Melon, Cloves & Tumeric.

Thanks for the input!

Sandra

[Kaiser]

Sandra, is it possible for you to get a new trainer? After reading your two posts, the trainer you describe has done just about everything wrong...if I were you, I'd fire him if you could get a decent alternative. I realize you are getting results from his program, but as an ex-athlete, you probably realize that any change in pattern will get results. (Frankly, if you want results you can do the John Basedow tapes - they 'only' ask for 90 minutes a day, 6 days a week. Hell, give me 90 minutes of your time a day and I'll get you in fantastic shape - and I'm not even a trainer! [img]smile.gif[/img] )

My point in this light-hearted post is that you are the consumer. There are good trainers out there, and some of them will even mesh with you and your style and what your goals are. Find them and dump the rest and realize that it may be an iterative process before you find the best fit for you. Good luck!

[gardener]

Sandra, I'm not an expert like Bill, Jean Paul, and some others, but--if you say you're not 100% impressed with your trainer, that means you're not impressed. You've got to have almost total trust in a trainer, but the trainer has got to earn it. (Husbands are different; less than 100% is par, but then we're around all the time and we're unpaid)
Some trainers are like landscapers. In NJ, all you have to do to be a landscaper is have a truck, some lawnmowing machines, and some teenage drop outs in the summer. Some are good, but some aren't.
The best nutritional advice concerns what we eat, not what pills we take And for advice on what pills to take, if any, it's better to go to a certified nutritionist or a savvy doctor, not a gym guy.
And if you have diebetic tendencies, it's especially needful that you get expert advice about supplements.
I am 100% impressed with my trainer. If Jean Paul were to say he'd train me, I'd probably say I am content where I am. But not once in over a year has my trainer offered to sell me anything or suggested supplements.
In fact, it's the other way round. I've been on him lately. He's 44. It's about time he started taking baby aspirin daily, especially since his dad died of a heart atttack at 49.

[bryanc]

Citimax (specifically the Garcinia Cambogia) is marketed as an appetite suppressant. I'm not sure what role, if any, appetite suppressants have in healthy weight loss and healthly lifestyle choices. But that's just me.

Gymemna Sylvestre is marketed as a "sugar blocker". Essentially, it confuses your ability to taste sweet foods--presumably as some sort of negative feedback behaviour modification (if the sweet foods you like don't taste sweet, then you're less likely to eat them in the future?). There has been at least one trial looking at its use in decreasing blood sugar levels in type II diabetes (the one you develop, not the one you inherit), but I haven't read it yet. It is not recommended for use outside of medical supervision, and is linked to hypoglycemic side effects (though I don't know whether the dosage you're taking is sufficient to cause these to manifest).

Bitter melon is also a blood sugar lowering drug (so far, I fail to see how this Thermogenic mix is thermogenic). Indiviuals with hypoglycemia are contraindicated for this supplement. It has also been associated with lower fertility and in the countries in which it is used as a traditional medicine, is often used as a component of abortive treatments.

Tumeric and cloves you can get the grocery store. I'm not entirely sure what their properties are all about. Apparently, tumeric has some thermogenic properties that are not well investigated (i.e. no dose-response curve has been calculated). You can actually also get bitter melon at most asian markets (the actual bitter melon), but it tastes like ass (my grandmother likes the stuff for some odd reason), but even in traditional uses, no one eats bitter melon every day.

Sorry, still no good news about this trainer Sandra. I'd say casually (not officially) that your health was potentially at risk by taking this supplement, given your diabetic status and this drug's effects on blood sugar. I don't know how much of these extracts are in the pills you take, but I would advise not taking them anymore without talking to your physician first. It's pretty clear that your trainer hasn't got a clue as to the mechanisms by which the supplements he's selling you work, and what their contraindications are.

[bryanc]

With respsect to your progress (in your 6 weeks with your trainer), I think it's great you've decided to make this decision to take control of your health and fitness, and by no means am I trying to belittle your accomplishments, but before you attribute your progress to your trainer, consider this small, study-unsubstantiated fact that is nonetheless a rule-of-thumb in the sport medicine/wellness research field:

If you take a group of sedentary, not-fit individuals and do _anything_ to them (whether it's putting them on a weight training program, or asking them to eat less carbohydrates or getting them to walk for 20 minutes a day), you WILL see dramatic improvements. Beginners to any exercise program tend to respond positively, regardless of the quality or rationale behind the program because any program--even Tony Little's Gazelle, is enough of a perturbation to their sedentary equilibrium to cause changes to happen.

I'm not saying that you're a lazy-ass and that the value of what you've done is any less than if you had done it with a qualified trainer, but that you're detrained from your college days, and that just about any additional activity you might have done would have probably resulted in similar results after 6 weeks.

Run away from this trainer. Well, get your money back, and then run away from this trainer. You deserve someone who is qualified to address your specific fitness goals and health requirements, and who will help you beyond the initial "honeymoon" phase of training.

[fitone]

My question is why is a personal trainer recommend supplements? And from your posts before about your trainer I would advise you to speak w/ your nurtritionist first. I usually do not reccommend people taking any extra supplements unless they are diffecient in them. And your trainer even said "he wasn't going to put you on vitamans when you first started working out. But, he thinks after 6 weeks of training w/ him you should add supplement." Please give me a f_ break. Pardon the language. Do me a favor get rid of this trainer.