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Diet, Nutrition and Supplementation Post here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.

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Old 10-02-2003, 09:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
fitone
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I tell you I am pissed off at most supplement companies even the ones that are repuatable like Biotest or EAS.

Why am I mad at these companies, well they are advertising and saying stuff like Mag-10 will put weight on you where as the only thing proven to put any weight on any indvidual is Creatine. And a sound diet. Maybe some added Whey Protien/ MPR also will help you out to. But certin supplements no matter what they claim are just plain BS.

--------------------
In Health,

Silas S Chen
Exercise Specialist @
Goldman Sachs Fitness Exchange
Downtown NYC.
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Old 10-03-2003, 10:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
bryanc
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I'm not sure what kind of response you're looking for with respect to this issue. The supplement industry is still unregulated as a result of being classified as a "food" and not a "drug". Technically, a lettuce growers everywhere could put out ads saying lettuce makes you bigger and stronger. In fact, the milk industry does just that--they just don't use half-naked models.

The reason why they're able to do this is because the media is willing to support it for the advertising revenue. Until publications, as a whole, decide to adopt a policy of intolerance for these types of ads, nothing is going to change any time fast.

The things we should be _really_ concerned about, however, are the supplements that are _actually_ drugs. Ephedrine and its derivatives (synephrine, which is often the ingredient that allows products to be 'ephedrine-free' is still an ephedrine analog, and therefore has the same biological effects), melatonin (which is a freakin' hormone!), and other "natural" drugs are potentially dangerous and their use/sale is still unregulated.
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Old 10-03-2003, 10:59 AM   #3 (permalink)
Bill Hartman
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Silas,

No need to get mad. Just realize what their business is all about.

Selling supplements to make money. Would you buy a supplement that simply stated..."New and improved Whey Protein...It fulfills part of your daily caloric requirement!" or would it be more appealing to buy a supplement that promised "Studies show users of Brand X Protein Gained 300% more muscle in only 6 weeks!"?

Who buys most of the supplements on the market? The uneducated (from a physiology, fitness, etc. standpoint) and inexperienced general public.

How many Olympic athletes are on MAG-10? Most likely none unless they get it free and it poses no risk(I love the MAG-10 plan by the way. Take 2 servings per day and eat an above maintenance diet and you'll gain muscle...No Sh*t! How many users have ever tried to train hard, eat above maintenance without MAG-10 and not gained muscle?). How many muscle rag readers are on some form of supplement? A helluva lot more because they are influenced by their sources of info and good copywriting coupled with a desire to achieve greatness beyond their imagination in "12 weeks or less!"

The supplement industry is like any other...$$$$$

The "diet industry" is no different. It's emotionally charged marketing. That's how you sell product. You tap into emotions.

Personally, I have no problem with emotionally directed marketing. That's how we get people in the door so we can train them.

"Wanna lose weight and have the body you always wanted....Come see Bill, I guarantee you satisfaction!" The difference is being able to back up your marketing and this, I think, is where your problem with the supplement industry lies. They don't back up what they say.

If you look at the headline on my website, it's there for a reason. To tap into emotions. To make someone take action. Then the rest is up to me to teach them what they need to know and assure they follow through. If I fail, they face no risk because of my unconditional guarantee.

If you want to get back at the supplment industry, try a few supplements, record your personal findings and then publish them (don't forget to return the unused portion and get your money back). While I'm not his fan, Bill Phillips made himself quite famous by doing just that. Then he came out with his own supplements. People bought them because he legitimized himself as the guy who cared and would never produce an ineffective product (choke, gasp, cough!). After all they were tested in a lab (financed by Bill of course).

Bill Hartman, HARTMAN Certified

P.S. Eat Food, Train intelligently...Read, Listen, Learn, Apply, Modify!
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Old 10-04-2003, 08:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
gardener
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Recently on the MH fitness board, I posted s message about visiting a Vitamin Shoppe. The only non-prescription items I take are aspirin, chondroidtin.glucosamine, and a vitamin capsule (not tablet). In addition to these three things, my wife takes timed-release niacin at her doctor’s orders. We usually get these from a nearby GNC store, but last week my wife was out of niacin, we stopped for coffee at Starbucks, and there was a Vitamn Shoppe next door.
The store was amazing, about ten times the size of its GNC competitor, with an astounding array of supplements of various kinds, including strange stuff like broccoli powder at $19 for a month’s supply. An entire counter was given over to supplements claiming to aid male sexual prowess, various sorts of pseudo-Viagras and supposed aphrodisiacs. One bottle hinted that it might contain something like Spanish fly or cantharides.
Two things struck me and I said so in my post. One was the prevalence of gullibility in the consuming public. The other was the avarice of those who took advantage of these overly credulous people.
One response, from someone who I think has many an alias, was that people who believed the exaggerated or downright false claims of these merchants of snake oil deserved to be swindled.
I don’t agree. I think that education in nutritional matters is highly beneficial. I also think that claims that this or that nostrum improves our health need to be substantiated, and that the industry that profits from selling such items requires regulation.
Why is there almost no regulation of the supplement industry? The answer is political, having to do with Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah and his 1994 Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act (DSHEA), which deregulated the supplement industry that is extremely prominent in Utah’s economy.
Well worth reading on this matter is a 2001 article in The Washington Monthly. Here’s a quotation. “Hatch [...] has been unapologetic in his support for the supplement industry, having battled the FDA and other federal agencies over the regulation of vitamins, herbals, and other natural medicines for more than a decade. He believes the government has no more right to restrict Americans' access to vitamin A or the herbal ma huang than to McDonald's french fries. Hatch considers his 1994 law, DSHEA, a triumph on behalf of consumer health freedom. But a close look suggests that if anything, DSHEA (or the Hatch Act, as body builders call it) has left Americans "free" to serve as guinea pigs for a multibillion-dollar industry, much of which is built on a foundation of fraudulent claims, pyramid schemes, and lousy manufacturing practices.

“Since DSHEA became law, substances as varied as paint stripper, bat shit, toad venom, and lamb placenta have all been imported from overseas, bottled up---often by people with no scientific or health backgrounds---and marketed as dietary supplements to unsuspecting American consumers. Many supplements have been tainted with salmonella, arsenic, lead, pesticides, unapproved foreign prescription drugs, as well as garden-variety carcinogens. And despite their New-Age health aura, a significant portion of these "natural supplements" are stimulants, depressants, and other mood-enhancers that some medical experts believe would be classified as drugs if they were synthetic. A surprising number of these products are addictive.”

The entire article can be found at
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/fea...mencimer2.html
It deals specifically with the use of illegal performance enhancers in athletic competitions.
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:19 AM   #5 (permalink)
bryanc
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Yes, on Hatch, ponder this:

There are laws that govern the use of neural matter in animal feed (brains, to be specific). I believe in the US, it's that no brain matter can be used in feed for animals. However, thanks to the DSHEA, there is no such regulation on food supplements.

I think that pretty much says it all.
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Old 10-06-2003, 10:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
poopy pants
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This is some scary shit.
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Old 10-26-2003, 01:16 AM   #7 (permalink)
G. H.
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We all agree that not all supplements are created equal! Like Bill H. said "the Difference is being ABLE to BACK UP you marketing..."

Look at the raids by the FBI, IRS and FDA at "nutritional companies" like BALCO in San Fran. There are a lot of unscrupulous companies out there.

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency plays an important role in Athletics all over. Consumer Labs (a private, 3rd party comp. that tests nutritional supplements) has tested OVER 700 nutritional supplements and only 7 have passed the Anti-Doping Code..."do not contain any banned substances including stimulants, narcotics, any type of steriod, diuretics or masking agents". One company is the manufacturer of ALL 7 products.

THE ABILITY TO MEASURE IS THE BASIS OF SCIENCE.
Science is HOW you back up your marketing claims. That is why there is ONLY ONE company that is endorsed by the U S Olympic Committee. Only ONE company that is ALLOWED to display the Olympic Logo on their products.

All nutritional companies can tell a STORY, but being able to back it up with scientific data on the completed products, thats where the rubber meets the road.

If you are interested in finding out about this company, send me an e-mail.
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Old 10-27-2003, 02:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
gardener
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See the replies to the virtually identical originating post on the topic "U S. Anti-Doping Agency."
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Old 10-28-2003, 04:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
G. H.
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And do check out the Medical Research posted on the virtually identical Anti-Doping post [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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