Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
According to this, 100 grams of tofu has 55 calories. To get to 2800 kcal, you need 5100 grams of tofu.
That would give you 377 grams of protein, 97 grams of fat, and 102 grams of carbs.
To get to 2800 kcal, you'd need to eat 15.5 Ding-Dongs, according to this.
You'd get 15.5 grams of protein, 147 grams of fat, and 364 grams of sugar.
Given that the thermic effect of protein is several times that of fat or sugar, I think you'd see a dramatic difference in how your body reacts to the tofu vs. the snack cakes.
So just to make things more interesting, not to discount what Lou has said, which I firmly believe in. I think increasing my protein during my initial weight loss was most beneficial.
If you had two cases as above only you tailored it a bit more so the caloric intake from both meals provided identical fuel levles then I would say your weight loss or gain would be the same for them. Strictly tissue weight here, not including water and not differentiating between fat or muscle and realizing this is not a real world problem.
At the end of the day I do believe a calorie is a calorie, just like a mile is a mile.
Calories are a way to measure how much fuel is in a food. However if that was the entire story of a particular food item we wouldn't have macro and micro nutrients.
So all that rambling boils down to this in my mind:
A calorie is a calorie, but a calorie is not a complete description of food.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
According to this, 100 grams of tofu has 55 calories. To get to 2800 kcal, you need 5100 grams of tofu.
That would give you 377 grams of protein, 97 grams of fat, and 102 grams of carbs.
To get to 2800 kcal, you'd need to eat 15.5 Ding-Dongs, according to this.
You'd get 15.5 grams of protein, 147 grams of fat, and 364 grams of sugar.
Given that the thermic effect of protein is several times that of fat or sugar, I think you'd see a dramatic difference in how your body reacts to the tofu vs. the snack cakes.
Not that I'd recommend either meal plan ...
But ... all that sugar in the ding dongs might have a large effect on NEAT. Just sayin ...
Given that the thermic effect of protein is several times that of fat or sugar, I think you'd see a dramatic difference in how your body reacts to the tofu vs. the snack cakes.
Thanks for indulging me, Lou.. I'll go Google "thermic effect" now..
You mentioned it in your book, with regards to post workout nutrition, I remember..
Edit: Ok, so the thermic effect is how many calories the body expends in the processing of food, correct?
So if I ate something primarily composed of protein as opposed to something primarily composed of fat and simple sugars, in the end the protein would amount to less calories, correct?
ie. let us say it takes 30 calories for the body to process 1000 cals of protein, but only 5 cals to process fats and simple sugars..
So with protein you have a net of 970 cals, over a net of 995 cals for fat and simple sugars.
So protein is superior because you end up eating less calories, and less is better when it comes to staying at the same weight..
Is that where you were going with that, Lou?
Correct me if I went another way with that..
But my question was geared more towards what would happen if you were, say, trying to BULK with either food (again, not advocating either! or caring what the heck ding dongs are, besides the near universally understood fact that they're junk food).
You know what I mean?
What are the building blocks of weight gain? Proteins, or calories?
And why would 2800 cals of protein equal muscle growth (or mostly muscle), where 2800 cals of fat would equal fat storage?
I can't blame sleepiness anymore, and I'm still having trouble..
you cannot take fat in and make protein/muscle from it
you cannot take carbohydrate in and make protein/muscle from it
you're not going to have a net gain in muscle mass unless you take in protein to use to build it.
*slaps forehead*
That's what wasn't clicking! Thanks!
Carbs and fat can't add LBM! They can only provide energy, and go towards fat storage when eaten in excess of the energy needed for weight maintenence..
Protein will go towards fat storage, too, but only when calories exceed maintenence..
Man, is my face red..
Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.. LOL
So if you estimate you need 2800 cals for maintenence, and you're eating 2800 cals worth of cupcakes, you should still be staying at the same weight, right?
Otherwise what you think is maintenence (2800) isn't actually 2800..
Doug, human tissue is primarily water, protein, and fat (along with various minerals that I'll leave out of the conversation for now).
The need for water is as obvious as the need for oxygen.
But the need for macros is still often misunderstood. You'd eventually die if your diet were completely devoid of protein or fat. The energy in carbohydrates would keep you alive for a while, but eventually your tissues would be starved of so many vital nutrients that you'd expire.
In theory, you could live a pretty long time without any carbs. The fat gives you plenty of energy, and the fat and protein would help you repair and replace the cells in your skin, muscles, bones, and organs. It wouldn't be optimal to live without carbs, since they're the easiest form of energy for your body to process and access, and since sugar is the only form of energy your brain can use. (You can make sugar from either fat or protein, but it's a longer process, and your brain, which consumes 20% of your total energy, doesn't like to wait.)
That's why it seems easiest to balance things out. Certainly you can jack up protein and cut carbs for quick improvements in body comp, but over the long run it's a trickier strategy.
Certainly you can jack up protein and cut carbs for quick improvements in body comp, but over the long run it's a trickier strategy.
Yup, that's what I did when I did the RFL diet for 6 weeks.. 70-80% protein, 10% carbs (in the form of non fibrous vegetables), 10% fat (in the form of fish oil)..
It sure works (when eating that ratio AND at a significant deficit).. I was eating only 1200 cals a day). I lost fat, and very little muscle..
But I digress..
What got me going on this path was this concept of "clean" vs. "dirty" fuel for your body.. Why all the gasps when someone says they had 2 bagels with jam and cream cheese instead of cottage cheese on a bed of lettuce.. In short why a 100 cals of this isn't the same as 100 cals of that, given that it should be 6 of one, and half a dozen of the other, on paper..
But I can see now the gaping hole in that logic, especially when eating in excess of maintenence.. LOL
Because as everyone is essentially saying. Calories only describes a certain aspect of that food. It is NOT a complete description.
If all that mattered was calories, and our body needed nothing else besides raw energy we could eat any one of these macronutrients at maintenance and maintain exactly where we are.
However as everyone is saying, eating only one is not real, you would die.
You can not eat strictly protein at maintenance and expect to put on mass either. If you are exactly at maintenance (another non real world idea) your body may I suppose lose fat and gain lean tissue. But again not real world.
To put on mass you will need to eat above maintenance. And you will need to eat a balance if you want to maintain it in a healthy manner. It's that simple.
Do not over complicate this.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
I'll take the ding dongs any day. That 2800kcal in sugar and fat is easier to burn off than the tofu is to stomach.
Aside from the fact that people seem to love throwing out these types of extreme comparisons all the time, when they have no relevance to what people can actually do in real life. The ding dongs are easy to eat but nobody is going to swill down 11lbs of tofu in a day, no matter how damn hard they try, and even if they did, it's no healthier for their body. They'd still be lacking important nutrition with such an imbalanced diet.
Someone mentioned insulin. My bet is the ding dongs would actually *IMPROVE* things in this respect, when used with intermittent fasting. Eat the ding dongs in ONE sitting, and the insulin is going to spike hard and crash your blood sugar back down *below* baseline levels in a hurry, which is going to make you hungry as hell but will also enable fat mobilization moreso than constantly pegging insulin with small amounts of protein all day long.
__________________
Mike Pipes
Massive fat loss survivor and aspiring trainer in training
Dear This Old House:
I want to add a 2nd story for a master suite.
I looked at the home improvement store for materials. Does it make any difference if I have them deliver a ton of playground sand and build a sandcastle compared to a load of 2x4s
What about that drywall stuff - do you really need them for a 2nd floor?
Can I build it with the materials I have on hand already and not bring in anything extra at all - I was thinking maybe I'd just rip out the non-load bearing walls and use that stuff?
You have a series of buckets you need to feel with nutrients. You also have a calorie bucket.
If you eat 2800 calories and don't fill up your nutrient buckets, your body will continue to stimulate the hunger reflex.
If you fill up your nutrient buckets and haven't made your calorie target, then you can eat some empty calories and it won't really matter.
So while you can hypothetically talk about someone eating 2800 calories of ding-dongs, which are empty calories, anyone who did that would be likely to eat more than just the ding-dongs.
By the same token, man cannot live on tofu alone. So even if you could eat 2800 calories of tofu, that's not healthy either.
Doug wants to become a lard ass again so he can do another round of RFL.
Okay, I don't know how this thread turned into me wanting validation for a bulking diet of ding dongs.. LOL
I just wanted to have a discussion on calories and healthy/unhealthy weight gain..
Granted, what I wasn't getting was blindingly obvious, and I should know better..
But that happens to me sometimes..
I was having a "throw the orange in the garbage and keep the peel" days..
Quote:
So while you can hypothetically talk about someone eating 2800 calories of ding-dongs, which are empty calories, anyone who did that would be likely to eat more than just the ding-dongs.
This is kind of what I was getting at..
If one needs 2800 calories in order to stay the same weight, and they happen to eat bagels and cheesecake one day (or even 2).. As long as they still hit their maintenence target and not going over, their weight should remain constant..
But yeah, their body composition wouldn't be as good, long term, as it would be eating cottage cheese, veggies and fish oil..
If one needs 2800 calories in order to stay the same weight, and they happen to eat bagels and cheesecake one day (or even 2).. As long as they still hit their maintenence target and not going over, their weight should remain constant..
But yeah, their body composition wouldn't be as good, long term, as it would be eating cottage cheese, veggies and fish oil..
But I do think that if they filled their nutrition buckets over the course of the week, and met their average calorie targets over the course of a week, it wouldn't really matter if they ate an entire cheesecake or not. It would just be hard to do that successfully.
But I do think that if they filled their nutrition buckets over the course of the week, and met their average calorie targets over the course of a week, it wouldn't really matter if they ate an entire cheesecake or not. It would just be hard to do that successfully
I can see how it would be a slippery slope..
I've never been one for binges, myself (I didn't even eat any "free" meals when I was on RFL)..
But I do like a nice glass of wine here, a cookie there..
I'm making better choices since loosing all that weight, for sure..
whole wheat pancakes and pasta, liquefied fruit or apple sauce instead of maple syrup, splenda coffee flavouring, more veggies, spacing out the out and out cheat meals (home-made cookies, cakes)..
You have a series of buckets you need to feel with nutrients. You also have a calorie bucket.
If you eat 2800 calories and don't fill up your nutrient buckets, your body will continue to stimulate the hunger reflex.
If you fill up your nutrient buckets and haven't made your calorie target, then you can eat some empty calories and it won't really matter.
So while you can hypothetically talk about someone eating 2800 calories of ding-dongs, which are empty calories, anyone who did that would be likely to eat more than just the ding-dongs.
By the same token, man cannot live on tofu alone. So even if you could eat 2800 calories of tofu, that's not healthy either.
I didn't know hunger was nutrient based. Please, tell me more.
The term "empty calories" is pretty vague. Where do you draw the line?
Sugar, honey, maple syrup, fruit juice, fruit. Which are empty?
Oreos, Trader Joe's Joe Joes, those really nasty whole wheat, non-transfat Whole Foods fake oreos. When do they become "not empty?"
I heard a podcast the other day, and the guy said that Chipotle burritos would make his athletes better and slimmer than Taco Bell burritos. That's laughable. Is it higher quality meat and veggies? Sure. It's still a big ass tortilla and too many calories.
And actually, you probably could live on tofu. Soy is a complete protein, fat, carbs. A spartan existence, to be sure...
2800 cals of tofu vs. 2800 cals of ding dongs..
Please, tell me more.
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