Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
An affidavit filed in U.S. District Court listed more than 60 products sold by the company that contained five controlled substances or designer steroids, including andro and madol, a designer steroid the FDA identified in a similar probe that prompted a July raid of American Cellular Labs in Pacifica, Calif.
Days after the raid at American Cellular Labs, the FDA issued a public health advisory, warning consumers to stop using body-building products touted as containing anabolic steroids or steroid-like substances, many of which are labeled as dietary supplements.
Quote:
Between February 2008 and last August, Robert Blenkinsop, an FDA special agent based in Boise, made four purchases from the company, he said in an affidavit filed in support of the search warrant.
Of the 31 products he bought, 23 tested positive for one or more of five anabolic steroids: madol, tren, superdrol, androstenedione and turinabol, he said in the affidavit.
Blenkinsop also said there is probable cause that the products believed to contain the anabolic steroids are "falsely and misleadingly labeled as 'dietary supplements.'"
The products purchased from Bodybuilding.com that contain the anabolic steroids are considered new drugs by federal authorities, which means they are not generally recognized by scientific experts as "safe and effective for use under conditions prescribed, recommended or suggested in the labeling," Blenkinsop said.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
phew, good thing they're cracking down on those effective supplements
wouldn't want them to have to waste their time working over the real scam artists or anything like that, not when some recreational bodybuilder might have a slight advantage in wearing tight shirts to the bar.
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
The FDA does need to regulate the supplement industry, because it's a bunch of crooked lying scam artists.
They're just going about it the wrong way because EVERYBODY KNOWS STEROIDS WILL KILL YOU, so that takes priority in their policy even though it's a pretty low-level concern in reality.
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
The FDA does need to regulate the supplement industry, because it's a bunch of crooked lying scam artists.
They're just going about it the wrong way because EVERYBODY KNOWS STEROIDS WILL KILL YOU, so that takes priority in their policy even though it's a pretty low-level concern in reality.
I wonder how much this strategy is influenced by pro athletes claiming they tested positive for steroids because of tainted supplements.
This is pure speculation, but the headlines in pro sports coverage do seem to affect FDA policy.
I don't know much about the FDA or what ever.. but are people here not bothered by them putting illegal stuff in their supps? The quote said the sups contained anabolic steroids, which IMO is pretty bad.
since no one elaborated on their viewpoint I got kind of confused.. there might be some hatin' going on here that I'm not aware of.
I don't know much about the FDA or what ever.. but are people here not bothered by them putting illegal stuff in their supps? The quote said the sups contained anabolic steroids, which IMO is pretty bad.
since no one elaborated on their viewpoint I got kind of confused.. there might be some hatin' going on here that I'm not aware of.
I'm against the witch-hunt against anabolic steroids. AAS have become a scapegoat that's a convenient cash-cow for some groups, despite one little problem: there's no medical evidence to back up their claims.
It's an arbitrary policy decision that stems from a few decades of emotional fear-mongering, the US's utterly retarded anti-drug stance in general, and then anti-doping has become a big business in its own right, so they use A and B to keep the money coming in.
The "illegal stuff" in their supps doesn't bother me a bit, because the entire basis for it being illegal is bullshit, for lack of better wording, as far as I'm concerned.
If you were talking about substances being slipped into somebody's protein powder without them knowing, then I can see it. If you're talking about people knowingly buying the lame-o pro-hormones and pro-steroids that were all the rage until about 2004, then no, I don't care at all.
And definitely not enough to spend the money and man-hours on something like raiding BB.com
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
It does sound like androgens were being mixed into supps that aren't supposed to contain them.
And as we all know you better know your shit if you are taking real steroids, because there are potential side effects. I don't know the concentrations in the alleged BB.com case, but regardless I don't think it's a bad idea to look harder at all the bullshit supplement companies.
Lou, good point about pro sports. There have been a number of MMA fighters suspended the past couple of years that have claimed all they took was supplements.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I'm against the witch-hunt against anabolic steroids. AAS have become a scapegoat that's a convenient cash-cow for some groups, despite one little problem: there's no medical evidence to back up their claims.
The "illegal stuff" in their supps doesn't bother me a bit, because the entire basis for it being illegal is bullshit, for lack of better wording, as far as I'm concerned.
There's really no evidence about negative effects of steroids?
Quote:
If you were talking about substances being slipped into somebody's protein powder without them knowing, then I can see it. If you're talking about people knowingly buying the lame-o pro-hormones and pro-steroids that were all the rage until about 2004, then no, I don't care at all.
Didn't they find things in the supplements that weren't listed as ingredients?
If you mean "become awesome", "get bacne", and "go bald at 23", sure.
If you mean RAR FLIP OUT N KILL UR FAMILY, mixed with a little LOL UR PENUS WILL FALL OFF then no. No, there is no evidence for that.
Haha, okay. I meant (from what I've heard) liver problems, hair loss (which you mentioned), infertility, reduced sperm count, guys getting breasts, CV disease, etc.
Haha, okay. I meant (from what I've heard) liver problems
Only happens with orals, and research has made it pretty clear that it takes massive doses and/or very long-term use before problems arise.
Can be compounded by pre-existing liver problems (#1) and by using other liver-taxing compounds - alcohol, aspirin, etc.
Quote:
hair loss (which you mentioned)
Tends not to strike everyone and only certain compounds really encourage it.
Quote:
infertility, reduced sperm count
Both of these are temporary and easily reversible after cessation of the drug.
Quote:
guys getting breasts
Easily controlled.
Quote:
CV disease, etc.
No evidence of any correlation here. Steroid users do tend to have enlarged hearts, but there's no certainty that steroids cause this, vs. the fact that users just tend to be heavier in general.
In other words, they anti-doping lobby drops a line of "side effects" on the public but is under no compulsion to actually be honest about the causes or severity.
In reality, the steroid cycles most users run won't cause more than greasy skin and the constant need to have sex with something. But you'll never hear that with the culture of scare-mongering.
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
I agree with what Matt said about overblown fears of side effects. (I haven't really followed the news on steroids since I quit blogging a year and a half ago, but I'm not aware of any big change in our understanding of the potential health risks.)
So maybe it really is as simple as the FDA doing the anti-doping work for pro sports leagues.
For the life of me, though, I can't understand why the leagues don't give their athletes better information about which supplements are free of potential androgens. Maybe they do and the athletes stray from the list anyway. If that's the case, I have to think the athletes are doing this on purpose, looking for something that'll give them an edge. Hell, maybe they want something with androgens in it.
That said, my understanding is that it takes a lot of testosterone to test dirty. I guess some metabolites will show up to indicate the presence of synthetic hormones, but when it comes to the basic level of testosterone and/or the ratio of T to epitestosterone, most of us could probably take some without reaching the point where we'd fail a drug test.
I highly doubt that athletes who test positive are doing it by accident, or at least a large majority of them are not. I don't know much about the effects they have in general, but from a legality standpoint, I can't imagine that the guys genuinely don't know what they're doing.
I don't know much about the FDA or what ever.. but are people here not bothered by them putting illegal stuff in their supps? The quote said the sups contained anabolic steroids, which IMO is pretty bad.
since no one elaborated on their viewpoint I got kind of confused.. there might be some hatin' going on here that I'm not aware of.
There's mixed hatin' going on. In the US, we (because of the FDA's overreactions) tend to make everything illegal, so that's the big hate.
I think most of us would agree that we want to know what's in our supplements (or foods, meds, etc.), but we're more focused on the illegality of steroids when they probably shouldn't be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerManDL
Only happens with orals, and research has made it pretty clear that it takes massive doses and/or very long-term use before problems arise.
Can be compounded by pre-existing liver problems (#1) and by using other liver-taxing compounds - alcohol, aspirin, etc.
Tends not to strike everyone and only certain compounds really encourage it.
Both of these are temporary and easily reversible after cessation of the drug.
Easily controlled.
No evidence of any correlation here. Steroid users do tend to have enlarged hearts, but there's no certainty that steroids cause this, vs. the fact that users just tend to be heavier in general.
In other words, they anti-doping lobby drops a line of "side effects" on the public but is under no compulsion to actually be honest about the causes or severity.
In reality, the steroid cycles most users run won't cause more than greasy skin and the constant need to have sex with something. But you'll never hear that with the culture of scare-mongering.
I doubt the level in these supps was particularly high, if only because it would have made them pretty (meaning even more) expensive. I think the danger would be that the consumer would find out, realize that nothing bad happened, and take true steroids on his own, without an expert's advice. More bad could happen under those conditions.
Of course, if they weren't illegal, this wouldn't be a problem, either. If they were legal, this situation would not have happened. They would have been happily listed on the ingredients list and there would be legal, safe, and simple ways for people to take their steroids and be informed of the best ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Schuler
So maybe it really is as simple as the FDA doing the anti-doping work for pro sports leagues.
For the life of me, though, I can't understand why the leagues don't give their athletes better information about which supplements are free of potential androgens. Maybe they do and the athletes stray from the list anyway. If that's the case, I have to think the athletes are doing this on purpose, looking for something that'll give them an edge. Hell, maybe they want something with androgens in it.
That said, my understanding is that it takes a lot of testosterone to test dirty. I guess some metabolites will show up to indicate the presence of synthetic hormones, but when it comes to the basic level of testosterone and/or the ratio of T to epitestosterone, most of us could probably take some without reaching the point where we'd fail a drug test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Full
I highly doubt that athletes who test positive are doing it by accident, or at least a large majority of them are not. I don't know much about the effects they have in general, but from a legality standpoint, I can't imagine that the guys genuinely don't know what they're doing.
Who's urging/paying off who to look into the supplement companies?
Is it the leagues, teams, players' attorneys, etc. who actually believed the players claims? Or knew that if they found some somewhere, that it's a moral "get out of jail free" card. It allows those who want to believe or look the other way to have a moral "out."
Is it the FDA, who wanted there to be no doubt that the players were taking steroids directly and not accidentally getting them in supplements? Oops
Or, similarly, is it someone on that "Senate panel" who's tired of the supplement excuse and wanted some supplement investigations done to prove that the supps are "clean." Oops.
Depending on your angle, this could go several ways.
Personally, I thought it would be too expensive to the supplement companies to slip secret androgens into supplements to any degree that would produce any positive effect. I'm surprised.
Personally, I thought it would be too expensive to the supplement companies to slip secret androgens into supplements to any degree that would produce any positive effect. I'm surprised.
I thought the same, which makes me wonder exactly which 23 products were tested here. If they were all some sort of exotic-sounding "legal hormone pill" that sold for $90/bottle, then I'd understand.
If they're slipping it into PWO powders then it doesn't make as much sense to me.
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
- Mignon McLaughlin
This whole thing frustrates me off on so many levels...
On one side, I am pissed that supp companies might even do this. As a female, it is potentially much more damning to take steriods without knowledge of them. I have NOTHING against AAS and may even one day use them but I don't want to do it unknowningly. I am spending a lot of time researching how to take them without sides in fact as the sides are not reversable in women.
On the other side it irritates the hell out of me that the FDA would spend so much time, money and effort on this witch hunt. It just makes the whole damn problem so much worse. I will never understand why AAS (and 420 for that matter) are illegal in this country.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
If it's in the realm of politics, trying to understand it, or make sense of it is a fairly fruitless enterprise. All of this silliness IMO hinges mostly on a few people's nostalgic memories surrounding some supposed purity of baseball. Whatever gets headlines will be the agenda of the day.
I thought the same, which makes me wonder exactly which 23 products were tested here. If they were all some sort of exotic-sounding "legal hormone pill" that sold for $90/bottle, then I'd understand.
If they're slipping it into PWO powders then it doesn't make as much sense to me.
I, uh, had a friend that once upon a time knew how to get hormone powders from a manufacturer in China.
He told me the prices from that source were dirt-cheap - literally cheaper than any mass-marketed supplement.
If you're talking about 60 cents a gram of test and $1.50 a gram of dbol, etc, it's not that costly to spike.
No idea how much of that's still going on since that big crackdown a few years ago.
Good for the DEA, too. Not like there's a huge drug problem in Mexico or anything, if you're trying to fight your War on an Idea*.
* Idea must be hated by rich white people
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
I, uh, had a friend that once upon a time knew how to get hormone powders from a manufacturer in China.
He told me the prices from that source were dirt-cheap - literally cheaper than any mass-marketed supplement.
If you're talking about 60 cents a gram of test and $1.50 a gram of dbol, etc, it's not that costly to spike.
No idea how much of that's still going on since that big crackdown a few years ago.
Good for the DEA, too. Not like there's a huge drug problem in Mexico or anything, if you're trying to fight your War on an Idea*.
* Idea must be hated by rich white people
Ah, thanks. Didn't realize we could get some of those compounds so cheaply. This just reinforces the case for boycotting China and only buying from 'Merican companies like Wal-Mart.
We could glean huge doses of T from the sweat droplets of ladies' bowling champions, and everybody knows that Clint Eastwood shoots out pure dbol when he does a farmer's blow. Supply problem solved. Made in America. Capitalism!
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
- Mignon McLaughlin
It does sound like androgens were being mixed into supps that aren't supposed to contain them.
And as we all know you better know your shit if you are taking real steroids, because there are potential side effects. I don't know the concentrations in the alleged BB.com case, but regardless I don't think it's a bad idea to look harder at all the bullshit supplement companies.
Lou, good point about pro sports. There have been a number of MMA fighters suspended the past couple of years that have claimed all they took was supplements.
Agreed. The problem is misrepresenting what's in the supplements. If androgens are in them, then people need to know. If they're lying about the ingredients then nothing else matters. That's BS and they deserve to have the book throw at them.
Discussions of the morality of steriod use are beside the point.
Agreed. The problem is misrepresenting what's in the supplements. If androgens are in them, then people need to know. If they're lying about the ingredients then nothing else matters. That's BS and they deserve to have the book throw at them.
Discussions of the morality of steriod use are beside the point.
Agreed. The steroid illegality is a different discussion than whether or not something illegal was used and not disclosed. Maybe the efforts would be better directed elsewhere, but bb.com definitely deserves to be exposed if this is true.
Can't there be illegal substances in for example protein powder that is really just "impurity" from the process of making it, or something? I seriously doubt anyone would put expensive hormones into their non-hormone products (like protein powder) and then sell it for regular protein powder price.. that wouldn't be very smart.
My main problem with this is that it is ignoring a much larger issue (TRUTH in labeling/marketing across the supplement board) by focusing on a small minority of products on the fringe. I do, however, believe it would be messed up if a company was putting synthetic hormones into unmarked products. If that is the case, then they should get yanked.
Can't there be illegal substances in for example protein powder that is really just "impurity" from the process of making it, or something? I seriously doubt anyone would put expensive hormones into their non-hormone products (like protein powder) and then sell it for regular protein powder price.. that wouldn't be very smart.
After reading through this it doesn't look so much like there were so much mislabeled as much as using an oddity of FDA regulation:
Quote:
Blenkinsop also said there is probable cause that the products believed to contain the anabolic steroids are "falsely and misleadingly labeled as 'dietary supplements.'"
Pretty much anything from protein powder to all that scam crap on the shelves at GNC is a "dietary supplement" which is branding that has to go on things outside the FDA's direct purview.
This is a specific class of product. What it looks like is not that, say, protein powder was being laced with fake-bol, but rather that allegedly anabolic substances were being sold under the label of a "dietary supplement".
So folks were buying watered-down juice, voluntarily. The problem is that what is now effectively a controlled substance (thanks, Congress) is being sold as a "dietary supplement".
__________________
Articles | Blog | Pirate my book. "Yeah, but you did your post grad thesis on trolling, so you don't count."
-JP, endorsing how awesome I am
Bodybuilding.com raided....ooops
Linear Mode
