Fierce Conversations 2: More important - Adequate protein or Carb reduction

[cycomiko]

It's astounding, time is fleeting
Madness takes its toll, I've got to keep control

But I remember doing the Hahn Dance, Drinking those moments when
 

[Fred Hahn]

Originally Posted by Alan Aragon

Fred,

Since you're back in the thread, let me ask that you invite your discussion group over here to defend their position against any contentions I (or others) have made. It's one thing to have a big nodding session with the N&M group, but it would be a whole lot more productive to have the guys on your 'team' come over here and offer some counterpoints. It looks like you against the world in this thread, but if you have colleagues willing to back you up with perhaps more substantive support, I'm all ears.

Alan if I thought that inviting them would be met with respect and good cheer, I would. You are not the problem but there are many on this forum that would disrespect them at every turn and you know that.

Now, if Jean Paul put his foot down and told people to behave or be banned from this thread, I'd consider it inviting some pretty heavy hitters to this thread.

[Fred Hahn]

Originally Posted by JamesKrieger

Victim, victim!

I've never seen anyone in my life who seems completely unable to handle criticism of his arguments.

If you're going to make absurd, unsupportable comments like "Animals in the wild don't get cancer", you can expect to be called out on it.

It's not being called out - it's how you call people out. We all err - all of us - you included. Being called out or, rather, having your errors pointed out is fine. It's how you point out errors that matters. If you think I am at all injured by your BS you are seriously mistaken. What I am is amazed by the childishness of your tone.

I will be posting a lengthy blog on your meta. It's already under construction. But nowhere in the blog post will I attempt to belittle you, not in any way.

But you, like Lyle, critcize to cause hurt. You purposefully criticize me in order to embarrass and to belittle me. Only people with low self esteem do this - people who have not 'grown up.' It doesn't hurt me mind you - it simply makes it nearly impossible to tolerate - like standing in the middle of an argument where people are cursing and flinging insults - why stick around?

There have been several occasions where people have sent me personal emails telling me that I have made errors in my statements on blogs and other articles. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. But I have never had this presented in a public forum especially in the way you and Lyle have done it. The two of you are reprehensible.

I could have deleted every comment you made. But I didn't. Why? So that others can see your behavior. It's actually pretty funny that you continue to act like a maniac jerk over and over and over again on my blog. I guess you really don't see how absolutely absurd you are being over a single statement I made which had almost nothing to do with the overall message of the blog.

Anyhow, I look forward to your responses and comments to my critique of your meta. I wonder if you'll sling more adolescent garbage or act like a grown up.

[chaddukes]

Originally Posted by Fred Hahn

We all err - all of us - you included.

Well, clearly not all of us. You don't err!

[cycomiko]

Originally Posted by Fred Hahn

It's not being called out - it's how you call people out. We all err - all of us - you included. Being called out or, rather, having your errors pointed out is fine. It's how you point out errors that matters. If you think I am at all injured by your BS you are seriously mistaken. What I am is amazed by the childishness of your tone.

I will be posting a lengthy blog on your meta. It's already under construction. But nowhere in the blog post will I attempt to belittle you, not in any way.

But you, like Lyle, critcize to cause hurt. You purposefully criticize me in order to embarrass and to belittle me. Only people with low self esteem do this - people who have not 'grown up.' It doesn't hurt me mind you - it simply makes it nearly impossible to tolerate - like standing in the middle of an argument where people are cursing and flinging insults - why stick around?

There have been several occasions where people have sent me personal emails telling me that I have made errors in my statements on blogs and other articles. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. But I have never had this presented in a public forum especially in the way you and Lyle have done it. The two of you are reprehensible.

I could have deleted every comment you made. But I didn't. Why? So that others can see your behavior. It's actually pretty funny that you continue to act like a maniac jerk over and over and over again on my blog. I guess you really don't see how absolutely absurd you are being over a single statement I made which had almost nothing to do with the overall message of the blog.

Anyhow, I look forward to your responses and comments to my critique of your meta. I wonder if you'll sling more adolescent garbage or act like a grown up.

VICTIM VICTIM!!

[Fred Hahn]

Originally Posted by chaddukes

Well, clearly not all of us. You don't err!

I err plenty.

[PowerManDL]

WHISKEY WOMAN DON'T YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE DRIVING ME

INSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAANE!!!

[JamesKrieger]

Originally Posted by Fred Hahn

What I am is amazed by the childishness of your tone.

Given that this is an electronic forum, there is no "tone." There is only your perception. What is written can be perceived in many different ways....I have no control over your perceptions.

But you, like Lyle, critcize to cause hurt.

No, I criticize to show others that the statements you are making are false, or that there is more to it than what you are presenting.

You purposefully criticize me in order to embarrass and to belittle me.

You know nothing of my motives for criticizing.

Only people with low self esteem do this - people who have not 'grown up.'

I would argue that only people with low self esteem are so thin-skinned that they can't differentiate attacks on their arguments from personal attacks.

But I have never had this presented in a public forum especially in the way you and Lyle have done it. The two of you are reprehensible.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You are completely unable to see the difference between what Lyle posts and what I post.

Lyle called you a fat, weak old man. He called you a fool. He said you were pig ignorant about everything. He called you pathetic and said you deserved ridicule.

I never made such assertions.

I never questioned your character. I never personally attacked you. I never made any of the comments that Lyle did.

I questioned your knowledge of the literature. I questioned whether you had even read certain papers. I questioned your tendencies to act like an expert in areas that you are not an expert in. I questioned your knowledge of statistics. I questioned the constant faults in your logic. I questioned your appeals to authority and ignorance. I questioned your inability to provide solid evidence supporting your assertions. And I had very good reasons for questioning these things.

What's also interesting is your complete inability to debate without questioning someone's character or motives (which are usually irrelevant to the issue at hand), and resorting to ad hominems. In many posts, you have questioned my motives for debating you (which can be considered an ad hominem), or called me childish (ad hominem), or rude (ad hominem), or all sorts of B.S.

However, when you throw these ad hominems at me, what do I do? Nothing. I may call it an ad hominem and irrelevant to the discussion. But otherwise I ignore it. I don't care. I stick with the arguments being made. I don't need to question someone's motives or behavior or "tone" like you do.

It's actually pretty funny that you continue to act like a maniac jerk over and over and over again on my blog.

No, what's funny is your double standards. You expect others to behave in a certain way, yet you don't behave that way yourself. I recall your constant insults of all exercise scientists back in the late 90's (despite the fact you are not even a scientist). I recall your very first comment in the exercise post on Baye's blog....

These people are knuckleheads. They don’t even read their own papers.

Those were YOUR words, before I ever even jumped into the debate on Baye's blog. If you are going to make such comments from the get-go, do not expect people to behave towards you any differently.

I guess you really don't see how absolutely absurd you are being over a single statement I made which had almost nothing to do with the overall message of the blog.

Fred, I think the overall message of your blog is wrong, but there's no point in debating it as it would only repeat the debate that's been carried out here. So I pick something that hasn't already been debated to death.

I wonder if you'll sling more adolescent garbage or act like a grown up.

What makes your assertions about my "behavior" more absurd is that PMDL said I was being overly nice to you. Mike told me that I had the patience of a saint with you. And you're claiming that I'm being adolescent and childish?

Give me a break. Again, if you can't take heated debate, than you shouldn't be debating.

[cycomiko]