Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Great piece! When the dust settles from the hype, the science usually prevails.
This is just a taste of what you'll find in the AARR. Here's what you've been missing out on;
- A critical look at the "metabolic advantage" phenomenon
- A breakdown of the "super slow training" method
- A thorough debunking of some Gary Taubes spin from a T-Mag interview
Wherever he may be nowadays, you KNOW Anthony Colpo has been cracking bottles of dom.
Regarding the first chart in the article (and obviously this is directed at Alan), I would like to know if someone training for more than four years consistently but with a pretty constant focus on fat loss and not muscle building would be able to significantly out-do the 0.5-0.8 number.
I guess I use myself as a baseline, because I probably should have achieved my desired goal of six pack abz and ript biceptz years ago, but if I was to, say, continue this process until the middle of October, and then focus on trying to actually gain muscle, could I see intermediateish gains if this was my first serious and knowledgeable try at getting hyuuuuuuuge?
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
Regarding the first chart in the article (and obviously this is directed at Alan), I would like to know if someone training for more than four years consistently but with a pretty constant focus on fat loss and not muscle building would be able to significantly out-do the 0.5-0.8 number.
I guess I use myself as a baseline, because I probably should have achieved my desired goal of six pack abz and ript biceptz years ago, but if I was to, say, continue this process until the middle of October, and then focus on trying to actually gain muscle, could I see intermediateish gains if this was my first serious and knowledgeable try at getting hyuuuuuuuge?
Between Casey Butt's analysis and this study, what we see is that there's a rough muscular limit for any given frame.
However, the problem with the numbers expressed as a continuously diminishing rate of gain, as per the chart in question, is that not everyone is training linearly to maximize their muscle.
Somebody that has dicked around in the gym for 10 years with aerobics and 3x10 on the machines probably hasn't begun to touch his/her real potential, as compared to someone that's been focused heavily on strength and/or mass building.
So yeah, you may well be able to briefly out-do that number. Alan's just talking about guys that go in and hit the weights hard.
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Between Casey Butt's analysis and this study, what we see is that there's a rough muscular limit for any given frame.
However, the problem with the numbers expressed as a continuously diminishing rate of gain, as per the chart in question, is that not everyone is training linearly to maximize their muscle.
Somebody that has dicked around in the gym for 10 years with aerobics and 3x10 on the machines probably hasn't begun to touch his/her real potential, as compared to someone that's been focused heavily on strength and/or mass building.
So yeah, you may well be able to briefly out-do that number. Alan's just talking about guys that go in and hit the weights hard.
Ok, but I would like to think that I haven't dicked around in the gym. I've certainly gotten stronger--though not as strong as I should have gotten--and bigger--again, but not as big (har har) as I could have gotten--because of the amount and, to a lesser degree, type of calories that I have put in my body.
I've worked my butt off, I just don't have the body to show for it (I don't think) Hence the "well, I'm probably "advanced" so how much success could I reasonably expect?"
It's part of the FFB thing to freak out when I purposely try to get bigger, but I certainly had no problem packing on the pounds accidentally over the last year...
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
Aside from that, I am now going to read the article. However, based on what I've read here, I tend to feel like I do when I read about how much money I WOULD have had if I HAD started investing at a younger age. Five years of weight training and nowhere near the progress I should have had. Now at nearly 50 and with T levels that are surpassed by the average college female athlete, I don't hold out hope, particularly since strength (and size) are ultimately secondary to the other activity I do.
I've come to believe that trainers/coaches can be worth every dollar per hour one pays them.
Matt, ya posted yer hippienazi rant in the wrong sub-forum. Fox stuff goes in CE.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
OMG... That thread is hilarious. There are people that actually believe that Surge gave them superior results to chocolate milk (like any of them could tell). I don't know if anyone remembers Chris Surgart Double Surge article; if 1 serving of Surge is great, you should try 2!!! That shit makes me laugh just typing it. The sobering part is that there were plenty of sheep that doubled their orders of the "proprietary blend" sugar drink.
Thanks Matt for your article. I posted a comment in the TMuscle thread (the new one created by TC, announcing that he deleted the original discussion). We'll see if it gets through.
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
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Yep, it got through, and so far I've been accused of:
1) Knowing nothing about marketing
2) Being a naive consumer for believing Biotest's claim that the product will be a financial loss at $80/bottle
Ironic, since I'd stake my marketing knowledge up against every single poster in that thread. And by "knowledge", I mean actual post-grad education and fieldwork with Fortune 500 companies, not that I read a book about marketing.
__________________ Megaloi -- My Blog
"Every society honors its live conformists and its dead troublemakers."
- Mignon McLaughlin
Biotest used to be an okay company making okay supplements. I liked the taste of surge and have also used their protein, and their energy drinks. It seems like to me they have completely sold out to get the 'bro' money. I can't really blame them though. I buy my protein and creatine from a guy at the gym who gets them for me at cost, and the stories he tells me are unreal. These 16 yo kids are spending upwards of $300/month in just supplements. He even tries to tell them that they are wasting their money and they don't listen.
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"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
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I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, but RedLefty, you have appeared to hit a nerve. At some point, I'll challenge Bill Roberts under my old user name (soonermark99), to take his chicken shit ass over to the monkeyisland forums. The guy is a major tool. Heck... why not let Professor X and the rest of the sheep go over as well. Professor X can also discuss his take on the fact that he's way beyond Casey Butt's genetic limits (naturally ).
At the end of the day, none of them will every post on the "Mean Forum". They want to live in their fantacy world of super human feats.
Oh... this keeps getting better and better as I read through this thread.
Jacked Diesel writes regarding Alan:
Quote:
Clearly he has gone on a rampage to try and discredit this site, but I think a lot of the current members (that actually matter here) forget that T-Nation is the premier bodybuilding website online. It is filled with a wealth of information in every aspect possible. And in the rare event that the articles or contributors dont help, there are the forums (which I myself find even more helpful than the articles). With that being said, how many times do we, as members, catch wind of other sites and authors attacking the members of the forum and the staff at T-Nation (allthough I agree with 90% of the attacks on the memebers). All of this needs to be taken in stride, we are all members of the elite here, and although I am not as embedded in T-Nation as say the T-cell FF, or the T-Cell sheriff's, I credit a lot of my progress and knowledge to these forums and the great members on it.
Why bother with these guys on the T-Nation board? Seems pretty pointless to me.... You ain't gonna change the bros and their paradigms. Alan and I go around about this now and then too whenever he gets on a rampage and wants to talk to the "bros" in my gym. What possible outcome is there to this effort? Real Bros don't listen to nobody who can't back up their shit with results... Science doesn't mean shit to them...
It is all well and fine to communicate these sorts messages to the general masses, but why try to take anything up directly with hardcore bros? It just doesn't make sense. They already know everything and have the real life results to prove it. (Those who don't have the real life results that are clinging stupidly to the biggest guy in the gym are also convinced already that they know everything and share the bro mindset) Facts are this... Most Hardcore bros actually have results more than you or I will ever achieve in the sport of bodybuilding. Not because they are "right" but because they have much more interest in the sport and are stubborn as hell and dedicated as hell and have put the time in to get the results. You guys are on a fitness board, some of you not even able to achieve basic weight loss goals, so why would they believe you might know more about their sport of body recomposition?
To a bro, it is all about results and nothing else matters.... PERIOD. (right or wrong) So why bother going over there to start more shit?
I like Matt's article. I like Alan's article and I like Alan's article even better on Lyle's board. I hope this gets perpetuated all over the internet in fact because that is how changes will be made. These types of artcles are great ways to reach general masses. Going over to T-Nation though to face-off with the hardcore Bros seems like a pure waste of time.
Although it does provide "fun" reading for those of us watching from the sidelines...
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It'd be fun reading when drunk I suppose but otherwise I could feel brain cells dying when I glanced at that thread last night.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I haven't had a chance to read the entire thread, but RedLefty, you have appeared to hit a nerve. At some point, I'll challenge Bill Roberts under my old user name (soonermark99), to take his chicken shit ass over to the monkeyisland forums. The guy is a major tool. Heck... why not let Professor X and the rest of the sheep go over as well. Professor X can also discuss his take on the fact that he's way beyond Casey Butt's genetic limits (naturally ).
At the end of the day, none of them will every post on the "Mean Forum". They want to live in their fantacy world of super human feats.
hell, just invite him here. quite a few of the authors have shown up here before. its neutral territory. getting him to post anywhere he can't have someone edit/delete/ban the other side is a win.
Biotest used to be an okay company making okay supplements. I liked the taste of surge and have also used their protein, and their energy drinks. It seems like to me they have completely sold out to get the 'bro' money.
Used to be? The entire thing has been like tghis since the beginig. TC and Tim took the Bill Phillips business model (pre-sellout) and went into it whole hog. They have been claiming crap since the begining. Ribose achieving massive gains. Or the best, the absolute shilling of ART practitioners since the begining. Guess Tim had to advertise his patent and business partner somehow.
Alan Aragon's Guest Article
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