Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
I've been thinking for some time about how carbs affect my mood and considering other people's anecdotal reports. I recently read Lyle McDonald's Carbohydrate Intake and Depression - Q&A and (while he doesn't directly recommend this supplement) I'm looking for information on supplementing with L-Tryptophan. I've been googling and most of what I've found is anecdotal, over my head, or a sales pitch from someplace that just happens to sell L-Tryptophan.
Also Lidtke appears to sell USP certified L-Tryptophan. Anyone have any experience with them?
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
I've been thinking for some time about how carbs affect my mood and considering other people's anecdotal reports. I recently read Lyle McDonald's Carbohydrate Intake and Depression - Q&A and (while he doesn't directly recommend this supplement) I'm looking for information on supplementing with L-Tryptophan. I've been googling and most of what I've found is anecdotal, over my head, or a sales pitch from someplace that just happens to sell L-Tryptophan.
Also Lidtke appears to sell USP certified L-Tryptophan. Anyone have any experience with them?
Tryptophan is an essential amino acid. It increases the levels of serotonin in the brain, a neurotransmitter that, in adequate concentrations, positively effects mood and appetite. Deficiencies can cause anger, depression, increased hunger, etc. Theoretically, it should help decrease anger/depression and give a "calming" effect. I have no experience with it though.
I've read up on tryptophan and serotonin in the brain, but in relation the central fatigue, not other things.. I'm not sure if the research supports that eating more of it will increase serotonin levels, though..
Tryptophan is the precusor for serotonin, but how eating it affects the levels of tryptophan in the brain and if it's significant or not is another matter..
EDIT: also, if it is to work (not saying it does) you'd have to restrict your intake of BCAAs when you take the supplement, as BCAAs "compete" with tryptophan for entry into the brain. I found a review on tryptophan and serotonin, but I don't think I have time to read it now (I'm going to rent a movie soon :P)
Maybe someone who has read up on this before will chime in. Otherwise, I'll probably read up on it as it caught my intrest.
You don't always need tryptophan to sleep better, it can also just help to shift most of your daily carb allowance to the evening and as karky wrote, not have too many BCAAs at night.
Perhaps this is why so many have a problem sleeping when they had a dairy-based protein. Not everyone has a problem here, but I definitely do but then again am allergic to dairy (another exception).
So a few tricks to try would be
- avoid a surplus of BCAAs at night
- push your carbs to the evening
and when you can't do this , like when you're doing PSMF or another very low-carb diet or just plain eat too much protein at night.. you can always supplement with tryptophan. Until not so long agao, tryptophan couldn't be bought in the US but it's back on the shelves AFAIK.
Some use 5-HTP but I'm told the tryptophan is more of a 'sleep aid' than 5-HTP is, which is more a mood enhancer.
I found a review on tryptophan and serotonin, but I don't think I have time to read it now (I'm going to rent a movie soon :P)
Maybe someone who has read up on this before will chime in. Otherwise, I'll probably read up on it as it caught my intrest.
Was it this review from the International Journal of Tryptophan Research? (This links to the abstract, but the full text is also there for download as a pdf.)
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
You don't always need tryptophan to sleep better, it can also just help to shift most of your daily carb allowance to the evening and as karky wrote, not have too many BCAAs at night.
There's no question that tryptophan makes me sleep. Does it ever! However my main interest in it is how it relates to mood. (Thanks for the reminder about 5-HTP. I've been looking up stuff about that too.)
__________________
"Time and patience are the 2 elements that most people don't include in their plans."
-Alan Aragon
"The scale simply tells you how much the earth loves you on a particular day."
-Ogedei (Keith)
It's my understanding that the drug Ecstasy causes the brain to dump its serotonin and flood the receptacles causing very agreeable mood. If tryptohpan is a precursor to serotonin, perhaps it is causing a similar, although much more minor effect? Would also make sense as to why it was at one time banned in the US.
__________________
"Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." -- T.S. Eliot
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."-- Aristotle
Tryptophan was banned for a while because a batch was contaminated badly a long time ago, so they blamed the active ingredient rather than the contaminant in it.
I've been wondering about this too .. since I think my body is getting used to Melatonin, and I've always had crap-tastic sleep issues and insomnia .. Once I'm down I'm out for the count .. getting to sleep though is my issue
I'm still having flashbacks to the giant turkey leg at the Fair. Too much food, too much protein, too much tryptophan. I had to take a nap as soon as I got home.
Melatonin is a fantastic sleep aid, but only for the purpose it is fitting for.. when your sleep hours are disrupted due to travel or different work shifts. Melatonin helps you fall asleep when you go to bed on a totally different hour.
That's when I take it ..
Tryptophan OTOH is what I use when I know that I'm going to sleep poorly because my carbs have been very low. I surely wished to have known about the effect of carbs (or tryptophan) on sleep as it would have helped me so much in the past..
It's the raised insulin levels that will help push more tryptophan into the brain.
Tryptophan OTOH is what I use when I know that I'm going to sleep poorly because my carbs have been very low. I surely wished to have known about the effect of carbs (or tryptophan) on sleep as it would have helped me so much in the past..
It's the raised insulin levels that will help push more tryptophan into the brain.
I've used Melatonin mostly for quite some time .. but for me .. I have to take really ridiculous amounts of it to get the relaxation/sleepiness I need to be able to fall asleep relatively easily (usually I take 10-15mg a night!) ..
So since you've used both Melatonin and Tryptophan .. can you distinguish between the effects of them? Would Tryptophan be better in terms of inducing that sleepiness more so than Melatonin? Or would I be better off combining them? Not sure on that one?
I've also taken both at the same time, so it doesn't always need to be an either/or situation. But when I've woken up at say 2am and fear I can't fall asleep again, I might reach for melatonin.
Tryptophan I take more or less out of habit before going to bed on days I'm low in carbs all day long, but that's only 2 days a week tops.
Another thing to think about is to block as much light from your room as you can. And if you can't (our blinds let light in at the side) , wear a sleep mask. The funny thing: i'm partially deaf, yet extremely easily bothered by noise so if I use anything , am using ear plugs. Always do when travelling.
My partner OTOH , who has trouble with eye sight.. yep, you guessed it, is really bothered by light and uses a sleep mask nearly all the time.
But really, what helps most is to eat my biggest meal of the day very close to bed time.. it's why I'm practicing intermittent fasting by skipping lunch.. in a pinch I could eat first thing in the morning and just 10 minutes before going to bed and fast in between.
I've also taken both at the same time, so it doesn't always need to be an either/or situation. But when I've woken up at say 2am and fear I can't fall asleep again, I might reach for melatonin.
Tryptophan I take more or less out of habit before going to bed on days I'm low in carbs all day long, but that's only 2 days a week tops.
Another thing to think about is to block as much light from your room as you can. And if you can't (our blinds let light in at the side) , wear a sleep mask. The funny thing: i'm partially deaf, yet extremely easily bothered by noise so if I use anything , am using ear plugs. Always do when travelling.
My partner OTOH , who has trouble with eye sight.. yep, you guessed it, is really bothered by light and uses a sleep mask nearly all the time.
But really, what helps most is to eat my biggest meal of the day very close to bed time.. it's why I'm practicing intermittent fasting by skipping lunch.. in a pinch I could eat first thing in the morning and just 10 minutes before going to bed and fast in between.
Yes .. I too wear a sleep mask .. it's dark in my room at night, but it prevents me from waking up at 6am when the sun hits. My issue isn't the light when falling asleep .. I just can't get my body or mind to chill out, which I'm not sure why .. because I'm not overly stressed or frantic about anything.
I do have a substantial snack before going to bed, because I was finding that having an empty tummy was keeping me up, so now about an hour before bed, I have a cup of greek yogurt and some chopped peanuts. Still isn't helping me sleep any better though. I think I'll try Tryptophan sometime this week and see if it helps.
While yoghurt (or cc) is fantastic because of the slow-releasing casein, I'm not the only one who has trouble sleeping on dairy. It's not just allergy but there's something in dairy that makes people wake up sooner (and pee). Even when I wouldn't be allergic I'd still switch to another type of meal, especially one that has carbs in it.
You might even just do fine adding some higher glycemic fruit like pineapple or banana to the yoghurt.
have you tried the normal mind/body tricks - like imagining warm feet or sand flowing down your body and out your toes or doing math problems in your head or listening to sounds or talk radio or a quiet walk outside just before bed to relax and unwind or reading quietly before bed to settle your mind -- none of those do the trick?
have you tried the normal mind/body tricks - like imagining warm feet or sand flowing down your body and out your toes or doing math problems in your head or listening to sounds or talk radio or a quiet walk outside just before bed to relax and unwind or reading quietly before bed to settle your mind -- none of those do the trick?
Geez woman .. that would definitely keep me up all night .. math drives me MAD!
Espi .. Dairy doesn't affect my sleep .. I just recently started eating the yogurt/peanut combo as my nightly snack ... I've had chronic sleeping problems for the better part of the last 2-3 years .. I think part of it was being so underweight .. and now, I just have a hard time getting my mind to shut down. Now .. it's almost worse. Since I've gained my weight back and am working out again .. if anything, I'm even more energetic now at night! I'm screwy for sure!!
While yoghurt (or cc) is fantastic because of the slow-releasing casein, I'm not the only one who has trouble sleeping on dairy. It's not just allergy but there's something in dairy that makes people wake up sooner (and pee). Even when I wouldn't be allergic I'd still switch to another type of meal, especially one that has carbs in it.
You might even just do fine adding some higher glycemic fruit like pineapple or banana to the yoghurt.
Are you referring to waking up sooner after dairy?
Haven't done a pubmed search if that's where you are pointing at as I didn't see how you can do a search for it.. have a group of people abstain from dairy at night and another group eat it at liberty and then question them on their peeing habits
What I did is start a thread in a fitness forum and ask if others had the same experience as me:
1 not eat dairy at night and sleep straight thru..
2 start on dairy and having to get up & pee every single night..
3 stop eating dairy & not needing to get up anymore, or maybe only one out of 10 nights
Turned out that some had the same experience and others just had to get up & pee regardless of what they ate the night before.
Possible reason? Maybe a higher content of BCAA in dairy? And of course it's a lot of liquid, but my other regular evening meal (soup) has just as much if not more liquid .
L-Tryptophan
Linear Mode
