Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
So many people say this is impossible. I think I did it though. Granted neither was a huge amount...lost 15 lbs and gained enough muscle to be definitely noticeable. I used Weight Watchers and was religious about eating quality foods, and used all the extra points I earned via working out for good foods...lots of protein especially.
It is possible, but more likely for a beginner / someone new to exercise.
Many of us here have found that it is a LOT easier to focus on one goal at a time - rather than spend 4 months spinning our wheels, we spend 2 months losing fat, then two months focused on gaining muscle - and end up a lot further along than if we'd tried to do both for those 4 months.
Just something to consider if you find, in the future, that doing both at once isn't coming as easily.
I think that while on a calorie deficit, it's VERY difficult to gain LBM. I have been in a deficit most of this year and have lost significant fat, have made siginificant strength gains, and can certainly see muscle definition (because the fat is no longer there); however, my LBM has not increased noticeably at all. I have maintained, which is a huge achievement in and of itself on a calorie deficit. I attribute this to all of my lifting and keeping myself at a high level of protein each and every day.
How do I know that I lost BF and maintained LBM? I have had my BF/LBM measured periodically (via bodpod and calipers) this year to track those changes. That's really the only way you can know how much you are losing is fat or LBM.
Well, I am not a beginner and half of my clients are not beginners. This is not impossible, in fact it's pretty easy if you know how to set up the programs. It's all about putting nutrients in the right places and setting up your strength and conditioning to complement your nutrition and supplementation and hormonal profile.
But then again it could just be the voodoo that I do.
One of my bodybuilders just dropped from 9.6% to 4.9% in about 6-7 weeks by changing his eating and adding a couple of supplements to control digestion and getting his nutrients up. He put on almost 11lbs of LBM in less than 2 months. This is a guy that has been training hard for a good 7 years.
To be fair though, his legs looked like little toothpicks and twice a day, twice a week training on them for 4 weeks is most likely the cause of the weight gain.
He was trying to eat low carb, but he is very carb tolerant, so we did a 180 on his diet and he dropped from 9.6 to 5.8 almost overnight (9 days). Now my problem is that I can't keep weight on him.
Hey perrogrande, in your opinion what is the best way to minimize fat gain while "bulking". I know bulking isn't a great word, im not trying to eat everything that I can, more of a controlled bulk. I pretty much know what my caloric needs are to gain, but this time around im trying to do it smarter. On training days, I typically have a good amount of carbs before and after my workouts, then lower carb the rest of the day. Then on my non-training days I have a good amount of carbs in the morning (primarly from oats), then lower carb the rest of the day. Thoughts?
Hey perrogrande, in your opinion what is the best way to minimize fat gain while "bulking". I know bulking isn't a great word, im not trying to eat everything that I can, more of a controlled bulk. I pretty much know what my caloric needs are to gain, but this time around im trying to do it smarter. On training days, I typically have a good amount of carbs before and after my workouts, then lower carb the rest of the day. Then on my non-training days I have a good amount of carbs in the morning (primarly from oats), then lower carb the rest of the day. Thoughts?
You have to have a VERY disciplined diet! Also, you have to find out how much food you can eat without gaining or losing any weight. It's quite a hard thing to do if you haven't been toying around with a diet for quite some time.
On top of that you need to make sure you are still getting 1g per lbs of BW in too.
Yeah im actually trying to put on weight, just trying to minimize fat gain.
I expect to put on some fat but im just trying to do a "better" bulk than I have previously done.
BF- Dozen hardboiled Eggs, 1 Liter Promised Land chocolate milk, 2%
Meal 2-1 large pizza from Austin Pizza + protein shake
Meal 3-1 large cheesesteak from Texadelphia
Meal 4-1 L chocolate milk
Meal 5-1 L chocolate milk
Meal 6-1 bottle wine and steak or chicken with veggies.
I stay lean by increasing workout volume and also taking a shit ton of supplements that help with cell signaling, nutrient partitioning, etc. I will usually decrease food by half and eat clean every 5th day or so. This helps to keep the fat off. I will also do some conditioning workouts like Olympic lifting complex's and pushing my Prowler.
I also start low, at 7-8% before I start bulking. I will usually get up to 10-11%, 12% TOPS, and then I will take 2-3 weeks to get back down to 7-8% and start over.
At my largest I was 265 and about 8-9% and this is the method that I used. If I start getting too "fat," then I will do some fasting days where I go hiking or bike riding and use a Warrior Diet approach or I move it down to 40% of maintenance calories...I think I got that idea from a Jamie Hale book.
I don't eat like this all of the time, but when you are over 240 and lean it's hard to bulk with clean calories. If I were smart I would get back on 2-3g/lb LBM protein and LOTS of oils, but right now I'm trying to increase lifts and I want to use water retention/bloat to give me better leverage for lifting.
I really hate eating so many carbs, I am not carb tolerant so it makes me feel less than awesome, but right now I'm dealing with too many other peoples' diets and I'm being lazy.
Eating the right macronutrients has a HUGE effect on fat gain and loss. When I'm doing things right then I center everything around my Biosig profile. Eating the right macros has a profound effect on your body composition.
On top of that you need to make sure you are still getting 1g per lbs of BW in too.
This depends on the person and their individual chemistry.
The guy that I posted about earlier was trying to eat like I normally do, which is super high protein, moderate fat, and low carb. He looked awful and doesn't have the right chemistry for that. I switched him to more of a 10% fat, 20% protein, and 70% CHO diet and the fat fell off of him. He probably ingests no more than 150-180g of protein a day...at least until yesterday. As of yesterday he is now eating twice the amount he was before.
It sounds like you're talking about something similar to "metabolic typing." I think that's the idea that some people do better on more carbs, some on more protein, some with more or less fats. I don't understand all the particulars, but it does make sense to me that everyone is a little different and there's no one thing that's right for everyone.
BF- Dozen hardboiled Eggs, 1 Liter Promised Land chocolate milk, 2%
Meal 2-1 large pizza from Austin Pizza + protein shake
Meal 3-1 large cheesesteak from Texadelphia
Meal 4-1 L chocolate milk
Meal 5-1 L chocolate milk
Meal 6-1 bottle wine and steak or chicken with veggies.
No wonder I have a hard time getting and staying over 200lbs. Just thinking about eating that much makes me feel ill.
For reference, this morning I weighed 195lbs at ~10% BF.
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This depends on the person and their individual chemistry.
The guy that I posted about earlier was trying to eat like I normally do, which is super high protein, moderate fat, and low carb. He looked awful and doesn't have the right chemistry for that. I switched him to more of a 10% fat, 20% protein, and 70% CHO diet and the fat fell off of him. He probably ingests no more than 150-180g of protein a day...at least until yesterday. As of yesterday he is now eating twice the amount he was before.
Well of course in very odd situations such as that, then, yes there is going to be some tweaking here and there. But for the most of us a 1g per lbs BW will suffice.
Well of course in very odd situations such as that, then, yes there is going to be some tweaking here and there. But for the most of us a 1g per lbs BW will suffice.
No, you are right, he is a total freak. I have been in the weight room my entire life and I have trained for over 11 years and he is 1 of 3 out of hundreds of people that could tolerate carbs like that. The guy could literally eat carrot cake six times a day and get ripped.
That doesn't rhyme with him being on a very LF diet as carrot cake is quite high in fats. At least traditional ones. But yes, it's true.. some people just thrive on a very high carb diet, others on a very high fat diet, but most do better with a moderate carb/protein diet and 1gP/lbs BW is fine for most.
Well, I am not a beginner and half of my clients are not beginners. This is not impossible, in fact it's pretty easy if you know how to set up the programs. It's all about putting nutrients in the right places and setting up your strength and conditioning to complement your nutrition and supplementation and hormonal profile.
But then again it could just be the voodoo that I do.
What about a woman's hormonal profile? Isn't it harder for a woman to lose fat and gain muscle because of her low testosterone levels? Should her nutrition coincide with her menstrual cycle? Some women feel weaker during certain days of the month.
What about post menopausal women? Do they need to change things up drastically different from younger women in their diets and exercise to maximise LBM gains?
That doesn't rhyme with him being on a very LF diet as carrot cake is quite high in fats. At least traditional ones. But yes, it's true.. some people just thrive on a very high carb diet, others on a very high fat diet, but most do better with a moderate carb/protein diet and 1gP/lbs BW is fine for most.
Carrot cake can be made low fat.
And low fat is relative. What is low fat if you are eating 7000 calories a day?
What about a woman's hormonal profile? Isn't it harder for a woman to lose fat and gain muscle because of her low testosterone levels? Should her nutrition coincide with her menstrual cycle? Some women feel weaker during certain days of the month.
What about post menopausal women? Do they need to change things up drastically different from younger women in their diets and exercise to maximise LBM gains?
I train mainly old farts. Yes, there are hormonal issues that you have to deal with. It is NOT harder for a woman to lose fat and gain muscle. Will a woman be as muscular as a man? No, not without extra hormones. But a woman can gain plenty of muscle and lose plenty of fat without androgenic or anabolic hormones. A woman can control insulin just as well as a man can.
You have to think outside of the box and realize that it's more than testosterone.
You have to think outside of the box and realize that it's more than testosterone.
Thanks. I know it takes a lot of dedication and hard work to build muscle, especially for woman. And I AM an old fart, so there! My thinking has wandered about as far away from the box as possible. The next step is dementia.
I think that while on a calorie deficit, it's VERY difficult to gain LBM. I have been in a deficit most of this year and have lost significant fat, have made siginificant strength gains, and can certainly see muscle definition (because the fat is no longer there); however, my LBM has not increased noticeably at all. I have maintained, which is a huge achievement in and of itself on a calorie deficit. I attribute this to all of my lifting and keeping myself at a high level of protein each and every day.
I agree with this. Especially if you're a beginner, I think it's possible to gain some muscle while losing fat, but given the difficulty women especially have with gaining noticeable amounts of muscle anyway, I'm more sold on the probability that strength gains and less fat contribute to the LOOK of more muscle rather than actual muscle gains. And, as jane said, the difficulty in gaining noticeable muscle is increased on a calorie defecit.
Lose weight while gaining muscle?
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