Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
I was taught in my trainer course that one cannot (AKA it is impossible) eat enough food to get all the nutrients that a body needs. My ACE book says opposite.
Which one is it?
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I believe in taking in a good quality, pharmaceutical grade vitamin.
Metagenics
Pure Encapsulations
Poliquin Performance
All good choices.
People who are training hard need extra nutrients and the food supply is very poor, okay, maybe shit is the right thing to say. lol
I wasn't a believer until I started using a good quality multi and it makes me feel much much better and able to train harder.
One key is to make sure that the product keeps certain trace nutrients low and to not get too many of certain fat soluble vitamins. It can depend on where you live as well. I like in Texas so I am careful regarding Vitmain D as I'm in the sun a lot.
Make sure the product is chelated. And if you find a vitamin that promises all nutrients with only 1 or 2 pills, it's probably crap. I have found that most multinutrients require 6 or more pills to get a full dose.
If you are working hard, eat a wide variety of foods daily probably get a little dirt, bugs or few, and eat a lot you may get all the mineral and vitimins you need. Some sort of 1 a day vitimin seems like a good idea
I understand the short answer and DO take them myself as water soluable vitamins cannot hurt and it is even hard to OD on fat soluable ones. Also I got the money to blow... That said..... I see so much conflicting information on the internet.
Some sources say that it is possible to eat all the nutrients that you need via food. Others say that is ulterly impossible. Though I do it for myself I do not want to take a stance one way or another when I begin as a trainer without being more thoroughly educated. There are probably people who don't have the money to blow and who would rather do it more natural.
Is there any good source for me to cut through all the research done my drug companies and into the real research on this topic?
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I just don't get the "impossible to get the needed nutrients from the diet" part. What about animals? Do they need them, too? What about our ancestors? They didn't have them.
It doesn't mean that they couldn't have done better WITH them, but please, how many (or much) nutrients do we need? How could that possibly be determined?
It's like this crazy water bottle phase we're going through. You need 8 glasses or you're dehydrated. If you're thirsty, it's too late. You're already dehydrated. We're told to MAKE sure that we pack enough water for our kids at school! Come on. When I was a kid and drinking from the hose at some random house, blocks away from home, was I dehydrated? I must have been.
Maybe all the water is flushing the nutrients away and we need the multi to top us off.
LOL!!! Exactly my thoughts on this Roland. And actually the fat soluable vitamins (A,E,K,D) you can take to toxic levels so it isn't as easy as "it can't hurt you so take them". This is especially true of someone who is on a bulk and is taking cytogainers or even those who take protein shakes that are vitamin fortified. I know I am pissing out all sorts of nutrients from the massive overdosing that I get between the cytogainers and the multi-vitamins. I don't want to recommend that as a blanket statement though for everyone...
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
I've seen studies implying there might be some negative effects to supplementation. For instance there is one showing that taking zinc supplementation for long periods suppresses the immune system. There was one about how reducing copper intake slows the growth of tumors which might imply that supplementing could increase the speed of their growth, should you get one. There was that study showing vitamin E increased lung cancer risk. There was a danish study of antioxidant vitamins showing no benefits and some risks: Vitamin A supplements increased the risk of early death by 16% and beta carotene by 7%.
I've not delved into these to see how valid they are but it demonstrates that the subject isn't as simple as it might appear.
Also there is the suggestion that some combinations of minerals cannot be absorbed well and should be taken separately.
It's like this crazy water bottle phase we're going through. You need 8 glasses or you're dehydrated. If you're thirsty, it's too late. You're already dehydrated. We're told to MAKE sure that we pack enough water for our kids at school! Come on. When I was a kid and drinking from the hose at some random house, blocks away from home, was I dehydrated? I must have been.
Maybe all the water is flushing the nutrients away and we need the multi to top us off.
Heh - I ranted about this on another thread recently. My kids at school have to take water around with them at all times (mostly in plastic bottles probably leaking plasticisers and what not) and they have "hydration breaks". I don't know how I survived the inhumanitywaiting until break times to use the fountain!
Also the idea that it has to be pure water and not squash, milk, tea, coffee, soda, food etc. So if I get 1 litre of water and add one drop of squash does that render it useless? How about my mum who only drinks tea or juice? Is she a medical miracle? Research I read showed that whilst caffeine dehydrates you initially, if you drink it regularly, that effect goes away to a large degree meaning it does indeed hydrate you. I think it plays into some kind of puritanical mindset.
I'm a big advocate of knowing what you're consuming rather than just taking something for the hell of it. That said, I tend to lean toward the trainer course view that it is difficult (practically impossible) to get adequate nutrients via diet alone. You won't drop dead without a multi -- but they're helpful.
Just take a few nutrients, look at your diet, and see if you reached reasonable goals. My guess it that you didn't get adequate chromium. Or molybdenum.
Even something like Vitamin E... The RDA for E is only 15 mg (22.5 IU). That is VERY low, mainly because it is based on prevention of deficiency symptoms rather than on health promotion and prevention of chronic disease. Much (*MUCH*) more seems to provide strong antioxidant benefits and be helpful for cancer prevention, among other things.
E is also pretty difficult to get in any quantity via diet alone. And most of it is in various oils and nuts/avocado -- so lots of folks aren't getting much at all.
It's like this crazy water bottle phase we're going through.
Hah, I thought you were going to refer to the other "crazy water bottle phase" where people won't drink from a water bottle because they're afraid of xenoestrogens. So they end up not drinking ANY water and don't have anything to plan/pack their meals in (tupperware) and end up eating crap instead!
Is there any good source for me to cut through all the research done my drug companies and into the real research on this topic?
Consumer Labs - they are an independent, non-biased source of supplement information and testing. It costs a bit to join but well worth it (especially if you have money to blow)
I've seen studies implying there might be some negative effects to supplementation. For instance there is one showing that taking zinc supplementation for long periods suppresses the immune system. There was one about how reducing copper intake slows the growth of tumors which might imply that supplementing could increase the speed of their growth, should you get one. There was that study showing vitamin E increased lung cancer risk. There was a danish study of antioxidant vitamins showing no benefits and some risks: Vitamin A supplements increased the risk of early death by 16% and beta carotene by 7%.
I've not delved into these to see how valid they are but it demonstrates that the subject isn't as simple as it might appear.
Also there is the suggestion that some combinations of minerals cannot be absorbed well and should be taken separately.
There is some validity there in terms of negative press regarding multi studies. It's important to note though that negative events were seen in those who took a multi more than 7 times per week. I have yet to see any negative implications of a 0ne-a-day dose - although there are complicated confounders to consider.
For example, 15 years ago there was an epidemic of folic acid deficiency. Subsequently, we fortified the crap out our food and supplement makers began to use 1 mg instead of the standard .4 mg's. Add that to the dietary sources of folate and problems began to arise.
For example:
Colon cancer: More people who had been taking folic acid (1mg) than a placebo group had developed new adenomas (precancerous polyps) and more folic acid takers than placebos takers were diagnosed with cancer outside the colon or rectum. (JAMA, 2007)
Breast Cancer: A recent study found that women with higher blood levels of folate had a slightly higher risk of some types of breast cnacer (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 2008).
This was consistent with a previous study that saw an increase in post-menopausal breast cancer risk in women who averaged 1.2mg of folic acid (much lower a dose than you are on).
Be sure to read labels - US cereals are fortified with 400 mcg of folic acid. Add to that other sources + the 1mg many multis have and you have a potential for problems.
Like Leigh mentioned, I think taking one a day to fill in nutritional gaps is probably advisable. You don't need an expensive multi, just one without a whole lot of fillers. I put together a more thorough "how to" for looking into a multi. I'll try and dig it up.
A multivitamin is better in preventing deficencys. But it is totally possible to gain all of your nutrients from food. The hardest nutrtient to get from food is Vitamin D, which most people are deficent in duirng the summer.
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