carbs + protein around training. fat+ protein elsewhere

[karky]

Goal is gaining muscle and strength and minimizing fat gain.

I have been thinking about limiting my carbs drastically, and only having one pre WO and one post WO (a shake) with carbs and protein and go for fat + protein for the rest of the day with minimal carbs (only whatever I get from nuts, veggies, etc). Has anyone else tried a similar approach to this before? I hear a lot of people say that with limited carbs energy will be low, but at the same time I hear a lot of people say the opposite.
High fat and protein diets are suppose to create a more anabolic environment in the body (again, what I've heard) which would be good for muscle building, and then carbs around the right time (before and after training)
Supposing that this is a good idea. Should I have 2 C+P meals (pre WO and post WO shake) or 3 (pre WO, post WO shake and a meal when I get home from the gym, for example chicken + rice and veggies?)

I've read up on nutrition timing, and most of what I read do recommend continuing to eat carbs in the 6 hours following training, but I still really want to try having a very low carb intake

Also, for the days I do not train, do I need to have any C+P meals?

To get protein and fat meals I have been thinking of basing it mostly on these ingredients: chicken, beef, pork, etc; nuts, almonds, etc; eggs; fat cheeses. (I will also be adding low carb veggies with pretty much every meal)

I have also heard that if you go for a low carb diet, due to a low fruit intake it is wise to take a multivitamin because you might find it hard to cover what you need of the different vitamins, etc, is this true? (I guess it would depend what you eat, but given what I've listed)

any input?

[karky]

or should I just screw it and go for the anabolic diet? it sounds kinda tempting, and I get to carb up on the weekends with my gf

[bcbarnes]

It looks like you have a lot of variables that you are wanting to play around with - lowering carbs, different kinds of foods, timing, etc.

My suggestion would be to do the same thing you are doing now for a week, but write everything down and track your macronutrient ratios and calorie intake. At the end of the week, get your weight, BF%, and measurements. Then change 1 thing (maybe lower carbs by 150 calories or so) and then track that for a week. Repeat the measurements and see what changes. Then continue to experiment, changing one thing at a time, to see how YOUR body responds.

Doing this, I have found (so far) that I can pretty easily control my lean gain and fat loss.

Hope this helps ...

Brian.

[Alcoholiday]

you're thinking too much about things.

Protein: 1-1.5g/lb or lean lb
get necessary fats
make rest of calories w/ excess fat or carbs

Just make sure the scale's moving up, and you're getting stronger in the main lifts, and you'll be in good shape. While gaining, PWO shakes are a good way to get extra calories.

you're so young in terms of training age, that you don't need the complex variables of nutrient timing, pc/pf meals, or whatever. Just get the calories in with good food choices. keep it simple.

[Frank.S]

pc/fp meals have never been proven to be better in any sense.. just some crackpot theory.

every time ive tried to gain muscle and minimize fat gain, i do a whole lot of spinning my wheels and make no real progress.

Eat enough + lift heavy weights (and constantly improve on the weights you use) + do it for years, then worry about the details/getting lean. Anybody can loose 10,20,30+lbs of fat, its not hard. very very few people can gain that much muscle because they lack consistancy + determination.

Dieting for 20 weeks = easy. Gaining muscle at a constant rate for 5 years? hard.

[papperclippy]

Interesting thread because I was considering doing the same. Mine was a little bit different because I was still going to incorporate some carbs into the meals after working out. Obviously they were going to be low on the GI scale, ex brown rice, whole oatmeal, whole wheat pasta. Dieting is tough to get precise because all I want to do is gain weight. I am trying to eat mostly natural whole foods without additives, even though there are still some that I can't avoid right now, ex whole wheat bread has HFCS, turkey for lunch meat has tons of preservatives. What is really helping my diet is that I don't buy junk food because I know I will eat it if I have it, but I will buy a few little cheat snacks to keep me from going out on a binge to a fast food place or bakery.

[karky]

but keeping it simple is boring :p What is wrong with wanting to have a little fun and experimenting with diets? even if it doesn't give me any whopping better results than what I get when keeping it simple, I think its fun.

Also, on another note: When ketones are used as energy, do they disappear or do they not? What I'm really asking is, the ketones in your urine when you are in ketosis, are those ketones that have been used and it is just the empty "shell" or have they not been used as energy? I'd say the last one makes more sense, but that would mean that when your urine has ketones you are not burning ketones for fuel, at least not all the ketones that the body is making..