Zinc, Magnesium...Calcium? - JP Fitness Forums

ZachL · 03-18-2008, 11:49 PM

So I was at the grocery store today, looking for a ZMA supplement as per the GSD instructions. But all I found was this store brand bottle of Zinc, Magnesium, Calcium ("Bone health"). It contains 33% of the DV of each of these - that means 5mg of Zinc. My multivitamin has 15mg. Will this supplement still give me the sleep aiding benefits that ZMA would or should I go buy ZMA? I have not been sleeping well since I started GSD, though it also coincides with jet lag.

Alan Aragon · 03-19-2008, 02:01 AM

Why are you crash dieting? Highschool reunion in a month? Also, if you're taking an excess of stimulants, ain't no mineral supp gonna fix your sleep problems.

ZachL · 03-19-2008, 05:38 AM

I'm using the GSD because: a. GSD is designed to achieve six packs (or at least those low levels of bodyfat) without major plateaus b. I'm graduating college, I'd love to look good at the school pool for once!
As far as supplementation goes, I am not going to be taking any hot rox. I am drinking a large amount of green tea (i brew 64 oz with 2 tea bags each morning). I'm very used to drinking 2-3 cups of coffee and I have stopped that now that I drink all this tea...I don't think its the caffeine in the tea (which I usually finish hours before bed, anyway).

ZachL · 03-19-2008, 07:56 AM

You don't think I should do GSD (sort of GSD...I eat a slightly non-compliant item once-twice a day right now.)?
I value your opinion, and others!

Zach's Success Tracker

Cynic · 03-19-2008, 08:29 AM

Zach, I have no idea what the protocol for GSD is. I googled GSD. You want to know what showed up?

The vast majority of hits in the first page were about German Shepard Dogs.

Lost Dog · 03-19-2008, 08:53 AM

It's the Get Shredded Diet.

It doesn't seem to have plateaus because the deficit is so great that you're always losing something. But, it still has fast and slow rates of loss, like a more traditional diet.

A more traditional diet's slow rate for one week just isn't enough to budge the scale, while GSD's rate keeps the scale moving. But, are you only losing fat? I don't know?

Also, what will happen when you come off of it? There's a whole article on getting off the GSD when GSD is done.

And, if you're eating non-compliant items daily, is it even the GSD? Will it still work the same way?

I don't know if this is even important to note, but in the diet article, Berardi says that it's not for the person who wants the six pack, it's for the person who has it and wants to get dramatically lean. Whether it's true that a super lean dude finds it harder to lean out more or not, I don't know. But, when you've still got enough fat to not have a sixer, more normal diets are probably going to work fine and help you maintain what muscle you have.

ZMA does nothing for me that normal magnesium and zinc don't. I've used them all. I don't know that they do anything, anyway. I take them because I had a lot of muscle cramps, but I sleep the same, regardless of whether I take drug store minerals together, separately, or as ZMA. I also sleep the same if I take nothing.

Maybe you're not sleeping because you're hungry.

Cynic · 03-19-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

It's the Get Shredded Diet.

Got it. Isn't that the diet they recommend no more frequency than once a year?

Alan Aragon · 03-19-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachL

I'm using the GSD because: a. GSD is designed to achieve six packs (or at least those low levels of bodyfat) without major plateaus b. I'm graduating college, I'd love to look good at the school pool for once!
As far as supplementation goes, I am not going to be taking any hot rox. I am drinking a large amount of green tea (i brew 64 oz with 2 tea bags each morning). I'm very used to drinking 2-3 cups of coffee and I have stopped that now that I drink all this tea...I don't think its the caffeine in the tea (which I usually finish hours before bed, anyway).

I just checked out that diet real quick... To follow it to the letter would require taking 8 supplements, lol.

Are you doing this as a temporary crash diet to drop a bunch of fat for a target date (muscle be damned), or are you planning on living like this? That's the big question. If you're just gonna crash towards a target, it's not a bad plan, but it's a little low on the protein side. Also, the refeeds are too infrequent, and an all-out all-day binge is suggested every 14th day. Sounds like a good way to foster an eating disorder or two. I'd opt for something more linear & less extreme if you want the results to last.

ZachL · 03-19-2008, 02:07 PM

I appreciate the comments and input so far. It is something of a crash diet - I want to get a six pack by graduation in May. Not sure if its possible but I'm gunning for it.

Alan: How would you handle the refeeds on the diet, any how would you suggest increasing the protein content? I think if I broke down my average day so far I'd be looking at like 20% carbs, 30% fat, 50% protein or something around there. Rough guess.

Also, I'm trying to get 100% compliant but I have this beautiful fruit laying around and I can't stand to let it rot!

Alan Aragon · 03-19-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZachL

I appreciate the comments and input so far. It is something of a crash diet - I want to get a six pack by graduation in May. Not sure if its possible but I'm gunning for it.

Alan: How would you handle the refeeds on the diet, any how would you suggest increasing the protein content? I think if I broke down my average day so far I'd be looking at like 20% carbs, 30% fat, 50% protein or something around there. Rough guess.

Also, I'm trying to get 100% compliant but I have this beautiful fruit laying around and I can't stand to let it rot!

See, what you said about having to waste the fruit really gets to me. It reminds me of what pisses me off so much about the quacky, unfounded extremism that pervades the fitness industry. Instead of doing a 5000-cal binge every 14 days, why not omit the bingefest, and eat about 300-400 carb-dominant calories on your training days, fruit included. You'll still eat the same amount of calories (or less) by the end of 2 weeks, but you'll have MUCH better workout performance, recovery, & general health. Not to mention, you won't be wallowing around in the world of disordered eating. I understand that May is right around the corner, so my suggestion to you is to crank up your training output and be more linear with your caloric input, then the adaptations will be closer to ideal.

ZachL · 03-19-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Aragon

See, what you said about having to waste the fruit really gets to me. It reminds me of what pisses me off so much about the quacky, unfounded extremism that pervades the fitness industry. Instead of doing a 5000-cal binge every 14 days, why not omit the bingefest, and eat about 300-400 carb-dominant calories on your training days, fruit included. You'll still eat the same amount of calories (or less) by the end of 2 weeks, but you'll have MUCH better workout performance, recovery, & general health. Not to mention, you won't be wallowing around in the world of disordered eating. I understand that May is right around the corner, so my suggestion to you is to crank up your training output and be more linear with your caloric input, then the adaptations will be closer to ideal.

Sounds like great advice. I appreciate it and will put it into use tomorrow. I have some beautiful pears in the fridge!

ZDrax · 03-25-2008, 07:55 PM

I tried the GSD. I have no fucking clue how anyone does it unless you're taking mountains of stims. My appetite crashed, fat loss cratered, and work output was dismal. I tried to ease my way off of it (totally didn't happen) and blew the fuck up.

Do what that Alan guy says - I hear he knows what he's talkin' about

.

ZDrax · 03-25-2008, 07:59 PM

Ooh, and try Alan's bad boy cutting formula out:

Protein: 1.5g/lb of Target Bodyweight (so 165)
Carbs: 1g/lb of TBW on training days, 0.7g/lb of TBW on off/cardio days, 2g/lb 1 - 2x a week on hardest training days. If you're doing HIIT just keep carb intake linear @ 1g/lb.
Fat: 0.5g/lb of TBW

Libellula · 03-26-2008, 03:28 PM

GSD sounds like glorified anorexia to me :/

PerfectMartini · 03-26-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libellula

GSD sounds like glorified anorexia to me :/

I don't think it is consistent with anorexia nervosa at all, particularly because people on that diet are not trying to achieve sub normal weight. To the contrary, they are typically well above normal weight and are trying to reach sub normal levels of body fat, often for athletic reasons.

The level of calorie restriction is also far from extreme. 1500 Calories for a 150 pound person. Call Weight Watchers and ask them how many calories a 150 pound person is consuming on their plans.

I also don't think that a person can display disordered eating in a 6-12 week period essentially by definition.

Libellula · 03-26-2008, 05:25 PM

actually, 6-12 weeks of seriously reduced eating could lead to disordered thoughts about eating.

PerfectMartini · 03-26-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Libellula

actually, 6-12 weeks of seriously reduced eating could lead to disordered thoughts about eating.

Maybe, but GSD doesn't broadly restrict any foods and advocates 10 Calories per day per pound of body weight which is at least as high as what is advocated by most popular diets intended for long term use.

The Ornish and Pritikin diets are more extreme in terms of the macro nutrient guidelines and calorie restriction.

How carefully did you read the description of the diet that John Berardi wrote?