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If target macros/cals are hit, does it matter if the food is "clean" or not, from a body comp/gaining muscle/losing fat perspective?
I know that clean food is much more satiating and voluminous. I agree that eating "clean food" will be more satisfying during a cut, and will prevent overeating during a bulk. No argument there.
But, hypothetically, if all other variables are kept constant(grams fat,carbs, pro, calories), does it really matter? For the sake of the argument, let's assume that the "dirty eater" is getting enough vitamins/N-3 fatty acids(maybe via fish oil syrup.)
As an example, if you took 2 twins, and gave one of them a meal of chicken breast/salad with olive oil/fruit, and the other one got a big protein shake with a slice of pizza, and both meals had the same macros, would there be any difference?
Any thoughts/opinions/reasons I'm a dumbass for asking this?
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"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
Well same macros, same calories, I'd think there would be shit all difference for muscle gain, but the thing is, macros in those types of food aren't the same anyway. Eating clean and not clean would probably change your average macros just by the types of food you are eating.
The junk food guy would also be getting more of his carbs from sugars, and more of his fats from "the bad fats".
The junk food guy might feel shit from eating junk food all the time, and that could affect his workouts (I never feel that great after junk food)
It wouldn't be too bad for muscle gain, might slow fat gain though I'd think. Just eat clean, and don't worry about when you stuff up too much.
This is a great question. In short, no, it does not matter. Most of the time "clean eating" is for the sake of more volume, staying on track, etc. All the benefits that you mentioned.
There are some arguments for QUALITY of protein, lack of pesticides, etc. If you pair these things with a extreme training program then there might be something their to the importance on a small scale. There are some studies to support it.
The biggest picture comes in with the relevance of clean eating is how in shape you are in at the point of starting this eating.
A recent study in Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism shows some interesting information on the aspect of free radical production in the body in both normal and obese subjects.
When healthy subjects took in high fiber and high fruit compared to high-fat, high carb fast food, they showed no oxidative stresses, but the obese did.
There are other studies that show digestive weakness, protein uptake, etc when in terms of refined foods vs whole.
Some have more protein intolerances and need higher quality and more variety all the way around.
I will say the most are HIGHLY ANAL and that for the most part "clean eating" is really more about the fear of bringing forth the return of the "fat loss" that didn't really happen. For example, if you go from eating really really clean and having no carbs and sodium to cheating on a fast food meal it is going to blow all that figment of "fat loss" you had on a real large scale. I tell my clients to salt more, to not eat so so clean, i think it is important to not have the the internal fear embedded into about eating a bagel and blowing up like a balloon....
/end rant.
So I hate to end this on a note of it depends, but like with most things it does. If you can get away with it than great, if you can't than you can't. I can say that the more you are participating in a solid training program, unless under extreme conditions, the less this matters. Normal body composition and strength training on a enthusiastic level needs to really not worry. Those who are overweight or those who are involved in more extreme training and athletic conditioning it may change things for on a smaller level.
I often wonder this. My two cents is... it might matter a little bit to body composition but probably not a whole lot. I think by comparing blood work is where the biggest differences would be noted (ie HDL/LDL/Cholesterol levels).
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I agree with what Simon C said " The junk food guy would also be getting more of his carbs from sugars, and more of his fats from "the bad fats". There body comp will not be as good as a person who eats clean. Thats just my opinion though.
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"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever."
-Lance Armstrong-
"Hard work beats talent everytime."
-Tony Dungy-
"If you can see yourself doing something you can achieve it." Dave Goggins
"I would rather leave it all out there then not go out there at all." Dave Goggins(Ultramarathon runner)
Even at my age, if my activity level were high enough it probably wouldn't matter too much. But I just don't have the time or energy to maintain that high an activity level, so eating clean helps.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759
This really is a question I have thought about ALOT lately. For about a year, I have been following Berardi's PN eating, which usually has you eating starchy carbs at breakfast and before/after training, with fruits and veggies at other meals. But the other day I began wondering if it really made a ton of difference.
I have gotten leaner over the course of a year and have added some muscle as well, but I feel that it's due mainly to my training program and the number of calories I have eaten.
I guess i'm really wondering if there's a big difference between eating a sandwich (bread and meat and veggies), or fruit and salad and meat. Sometimes I wonder if "eating clean" all the time really is being too anal
I will say the most are HIGHLY ANAL and that for the most part "clean eating" is really more about the fear of bringing forth the return of the "fat loss" that didn't really happen. For example, if you go from eating really really clean and having no carbs and sodium to cheating on a fast food meal it is going to blow all that figment of "fat loss" you had on a real large scale. I tell my clients to salt more, to not eat so so clean, i think it is important to not have the the internal fear embedded into about eating a bagel and blowing up like a balloon....
/end rant.
So I hate to end this on a note of it depends, but like with most things it does. If you can get away with it than great, if you can't than you can't. I can say that the more you are participating in a solid training program, unless under extreme conditions, the less this matters. Normal body composition and strength training on a enthusiastic level needs to really not worry. Those who are overweight or those who are involved in more extreme training and athletic conditioning it may change things for on a smaller level.
I like you...
That is the most common sense I have heard in eons!
Thanks, all, for the replies. Lots of interesting stuff regarding this topic.
I've been eating more "dirty" foods lately, while still getting in enough protein, ect. Can't see I've noticed excessive fat gains. We'll see if this works for losing fat, also, when I try to cut in 2 months or so.
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Audentes Fortunas Juvat
"Focus on making the 5 lifts stronger and getting enough food. There will be plenty of time to worry about glycemic indexes, PERs, and Bulgarian Split squats later. Much later."-Mark Rippetoe
Thanks, all, for the replies. Lots of interesting stuff regarding this topic.
I've been eating more "dirty" foods lately, while still getting in enough protein, ect. Can't see I've noticed excessive fat gains. We'll see if this works for losing fat, also, when I try to cut in 2 months or so.
I think it should, after all you just have to consume less calories right?
There are a bunch of different variables that could change the outcome. But I think that if you took 2 twins and one of them ate X amount of daily calories from "clean" foods and the other ate X amount of daily calories from processed and fast foods, there would be a difference in body comp after a period of time.
The one who is eating fruits, veggies, and natural foods would be getting many more minerals and antioxidants that would probably aid in the body's ability to break down fat and build muscle as opposed to the other twin.
It is sort of like saying that if you had 2 people each drink 2 gallons of water a day, but one drinks it at room temperature and the other drinks it chilled. Would it make a difference in the long run? Science says that it would because the the body has to warm up the chilled water and therefore increases your metabolism a very small amount...but over the long run that could make a difference. There was a tidbit in Men's Health this month about it and you could potentially burn 17,000 more calories per year by drinking an extra 50 ounces of ice-cold water per day. I know that this is getting off-base, but I just feel as though the person who is eating the better "quality" foods would see a payoff more than a person who is getting the same amount of calories but eating a less than optimal diet.
Of course, you are always going to have the freaks of nature that can eat whatever they want. Case in point, Chad Johnson from the Bengals. I saw a bio about him a while back and he said he eats McDonald's every day for breakfast. It showed him eating sausage biscuits, pancakes, and all kinds of "crap food"...yet the guy is ripped.
Also, the reason I eat clean is because of not just it helps body comp but it also will make you live longer. Just look at the documentary of Super Size me. After seeing that i will never eat McDonalds ever!!!
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"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever."
-Lance Armstrong-
"Hard work beats talent everytime."
-Tony Dungy-
"If you can see yourself doing something you can achieve it." Dave Goggins
"I would rather leave it all out there then not go out there at all." Dave Goggins(Ultramarathon runner)
Also, the reason I eat clean is because of not just it helps body comp but it also will make you live longer. Just look at the documentary of Super Size me. After seeing that i will never eat McDonalds ever!!!
But he was eating McDonalds for three square meals, 7 days a week for something like a month. With no exercise, so yea....
McDonalds does still suck though, but once a month or so; who cares.
there was a blog online of a guy who ate mcdonalds for a month + exercise and cardio and he gained muscle and lost fat. He also chose his foods to fit his macro profiles.
It shows you that it's not what you eat, it's how much.
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there was a blog online of a guy who ate mcdonalds for a month + exercise and cardio and he gained muscle and lost fat. He also chose his foods to fit his macro profiles.
It shows you that it's not what you eat, it's how much.
I think it makes a difference. Not a HUGE difference, but defiantly a difference. I know people who are very lean that only eat "clean" foods. Is it necessary to eat clean foods 24/7? Probably not. Maybe 50/50? I'm not sure.
It's still a huge debate and will obviously depend on who you ask.. but I think I look a little different when Im eating clean.
As a rule I think most people "feel better" when they eat fruit\vegi's, hydrate well, and poop regularly. You take two people, give them the same calories. One feels better than the other = more active = stronger metabolism.
Same amount of calories + same amount of activity (including non conscious) = probably doesn't really matter.
I've had girls eating candy and drinking beer two weeks out from contests.
Not to mention such legendary no-nos as eating fruit and dairy products.
In short, no, it doesn't matter. It makes some people feel all 1337, and it does have utility as far as nutrient intake and appetite control but, at the end of the day, thermodynamics uber alles.
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My personal experience - I think the biggest change has come from my improvements in training. I used to have to travel a lot for work and when I wasn't home we bought everything at convenience stores and ate out every night. The job was pretty hard work, so I guess I was burning off the calories. I am slightly leaner (1-2% less BF on my scale) now than back then, but the biggest changes to my body are bigger, more defined shoulders and back from doing New Rules instead of a lame isolating body parts type workout.
I've had girls eating candy and drinking beer two weeks out from contests.
Not to mention such legendary no-nos as eating fruit and dairy products.
In short, no, it doesn't matter. It makes some people feel all 1337, and it does have utility as far as nutrient intake and appetite control but, at the end of the day, thermodynamics uber alles.
NOT DAIRY!!! MILK WILL MAKE YOU FAT!!! USE WHEY PROTEIN INSTEAD... IT'S SOOOO DIFFERENT THAN MILK!
__________________ True Protein 5% off discount code: ZHS099 www.trueprotein.com
NOT DAIRY!!! MILK WILL MAKE YOU FAT!!! USE WHEY PROTEIN INSTEAD... IT'S SOOOO DIFFERENT THAN MILK!
HAHAHA thats great
__________________
"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it lasts forever."
-Lance Armstrong-
"Hard work beats talent everytime."
-Tony Dungy-
"If you can see yourself doing something you can achieve it." Dave Goggins
"I would rather leave it all out there then not go out there at all." Dave Goggins(Ultramarathon runner)
Eating Clean = regular cheating because I became obsessed with food and craved things like crazy.
More lax diet = able to stick to diet. I counted every morsel I put in my mouth, made sure I hit my protein goals and had things like a piece of chocolate or candy bar when I felt like it and could work it into my diet. I would also try and eat these things around appropriate times like pre or post workout. As a result I was able to lose 25lbs by adopting this method, 15 of which I was never able to lose eating 100% clean.
you could argue about the nutrient timing around workouts and type of carbs consumed. If all holds equal in the nutrient content of the two meals but one person has carbs that are high on the GI scale and another has carbs that are low on the GI scale, this will probably affect their performance. If done consistently this would affect their results. Even then though, it may only be a significant factor when dealing with athletes on the competetive level.
Clean eating: Does it really matter?
(I never feel that great after junk food)
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