Say "No" to Splenda?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Espi

First off, why do so many people here, that are otherwise perfectly supportive etc. , make themselves feel better by means of "fat people bashing"? If you'd replace fat people by blacks you'd have been accused by outright racism.

That's ludicrous. Of course that would be racism. It's totally different. That's a ridiculously extreme comparison.

Why protect fat people? By and large, they choose to remain fat. There are exceptions, of course.

There are people who choose not to wear deodorant and stink up the place (which in the US, goes against the grain), people who don't shower often enough, wear dirty clothes, swear and say offensive and insulting things in public, diabetics who know how, but choose not to take care of themselves, etc. Not calling them on it lets it be okay.

And, it doesn't make me feel better, per se. But, it does frustrate me that people continue to get fatter and don't care to change it.

[Cynic]

Oh, I don't know why I was not sorry I deleted my post. Maybe because it was getting toward the end of my work day and I was getting pissy and perhaps I changed thought mid-sentence.

It should have read "I am sorry I deleted the post..."

[smoddelm]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

But, it does frustrate me that people continue to get fatter and don't care to change it.

No matter what some may say (and what some don't say), I don't think most of them don't care to change it. I think they fear the effort (and face it, there is a lot of effort), and they fear failure. Most overweight people (at least the ones I've known) have "dieted" and failed at it. (Because of course "dieting" will fail.) And furthermore, many of them did and do it rather blindly, without guidance, and don't understand why they don't see results after a week or two. As commonplace as the knowledge may be on the part of all of us here that it is not about "dieting" but about lifestyle change, it seems many people are still very ignorant of that. So they are primed to believe that they need to diet and and they won't succeed because they have already tried it and failed. And if they do know it's about lifestyle change, the mountain just looks that much higher.

And then there's the exercise, which carries its own set of fears, insecurities, pain, etc. I'm always impressed when I see a really overweight person at the gym who has managed to get past all that for a day and expose themselves to all the hardbodies. I really want to go up and offer them some praise and encouragement, but I don't know how I would do that without coming off as patronizing.

And then, or course, I suppose there are some people who don't care about it at all. Wow.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by ZachL

add green tea and protein shakes to that list for me

I consider protein shakes as food, otherwise...

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by smoddelm

No matter what some may say (and what some don't say), I don't think most of them don't care to change it. I think they fear the effort (and face it, there is a lot of effort), and they fear failure. Most overweight people (at least the ones I've known) have "dieted" and failed at it. (Because of course "dieting" will fail.) And furthermore, many of them did and do it rather blindly, without guidance, and don't understand why they don't see results after a week or two. As commonplace as the knowledge may be on the part of all of us here that it is not about "dieting" but about lifestyle change, it seems many people are still very ignorant of that. So they are primed to believe that they need to diet and and they won't succeed because they have already tried it and failed. And if they do know it's about lifestyle change, the mountain just looks that much higher.

And then there's the exercise, which carries its own set of fears, insecurities, pain, etc. I'm always impressed when I see a really overweight person at the gym who has managed to get past all that for a day and expose themselves to all the hardbodies. I really want to go up and offer them some praise and encouragement, but I don't know how I would do that without coming off as patronizing.

And then, or course, I suppose there are some people who don't care about it at all. Wow.

Agreed, but they don't want it enough to get the info. I was heavy pretty much all my life, then I figured out what to do and did it. I wanted it, so I did it.

The first go was not the best way, either. But, rather than fail and go back, I kept looking until I found a method that worked well for me. I didn't stop looking because I wanted it.

As to the heavy guy or gal at the gym, don't do anything special. Just treat them like everyone else. If you're chatty with people, chat with them, too. They just want to fit in and not feel different.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

Agreed, but they don't want it enough to get the info.

I'll put money down that 80% of them, if given the knowledge, would still be fat 5 years later. Initiative is something you have or don't have. If they wanted to lose the fat, they would take the initiative to start researching it, at least.

[smoddelm]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I'll put money down that 80% of them, if given the knowledge, would still be fat 5 years later. Initiative is something you have or don't have. If they wanted to lose the fat, they would take the initiative to start researching it, at least.

If 80% would still be fat 5 years later, you're saying they have a one in five chance of success. What's the last time you voluntarily started something where those were your odds of success?

So they probably would be fat 5 years later because, although the info is part of it, as I said, the mountain would just seem that much higher if they really knew what it takes. Look at this thread -- you don't think they'll succeed; how do you think their expectations can be any different?

[Lost Dog]

It's not that simple. If they really want to succeed, the odds are with them. Even with bad starting info. Lots of people just eat less to start out, then they start at the gym, or buy a book, etc. People notice the change and start talking about it. If you want to succeed, you will.

I don't know about 80%, but in Cynic's statement, I think he's saying that most of that 80% just doesn't want it bad enough.

I lost 75lbs. It was easy. From 235 down to 160. Straight shot, because I wanted it to happen, it happened. I had plateaus and stalls along the way, but I just kept going.

I used to be on CalorieKing.com, and would get PMs almost every day, wanting "my secret." My secret was that I wanted to be thin more than I wanted huge burgers, candy, snacks, chips, and dessert every day. I still had cravings for those things, on occasion, but most of the people that failed, blamed their cravings (and their giving in to them) on hormones, mineral imbalances, forgetting to drink enough water that day, too much caffeine, etc. But, mostly, they didn't want it bad enough. If you do, it's not that hard.

BTW, I'm not saying there aren't legit reasons for cravings, but come on?

[Cynic]

LD is right, and maybe the 80% is an exhaggeration, maybe not, but you totally missed the statement on initiative.

It's not about odds, it's about taking control.

[RobLL]

My vote is sympathy for those obese. While I have not been in that category for 4 years and then on the edge there are just not that many statistics supporting people dieting and keeping the weight off. I am glad that I am an exception.

[Espi]

Same here. One can indeed say that eating too much for what one needs, is simply a matter of choice. From my own experience I can say it's the same as alcoholism. One doesn't really choose to eat too much, one is driven to eating too much.

Transitioning into a low-carb diet was the best thing I ever did. Of course, there were wrong choices, of which overtraining on too few carbs , resulting in overeating and a metabolic slowdown was the worst one.

What often seems tragic to me, is that people revel in strategies that make them stand out as heroes. "Look at me, I'm being so good because ...... (I don't eat any fat, any carbs, eat 'clean' .. etc.)" and then wonder why they are falling off the bandwagon after several weeks of too strict eating.

A successful strategy is one that allows you to eat according to a meal plan that doesn't make you really put a bigger effort into eating less than you need. If one has to constantly watch herself/himself at every bite you take (as is ofte the case on too low protein/fat diets), failure is just around the corner.
Simple things like smaller (but pretty) plates, ditching trigger foods, and diminishing the use of sweeteners can be steps towards success.

Two of the other best decisions I made was
- deciding to cut out gluten since it makes me feel bad for prolonged periods, and also probably is a reason for metabolic slowdown due to allergy-like reactions (joint pain, gut discomfort).
- deciding to NOT always buy junkfood on impulse as soon as it is on offer (am such a sucker for sales!) because the food is crappy to begin with. It took me years to overcome that 'Pavlov' response. Now I only buy more or less healthy food on sale, like the very last one was leaving the store with 12 cans of my favourite brand of tuna (Princess)

[BamaDave]

Originally Posted by gobbla

Coke 0 "is" good. A&W is good too.

Things I wonder:

1. Is the metabolic response noted a reaction to splenda or a reaction to the lack of sugar? Is their any reason for the body to react the same way to anything sugar free as it would to simple sugars.

My guess is that it's very possible and would have to do with the sweet "taste" triggering a hormonal response - which could be the same no matter what chemical is producing the sweet taste. Our bodies trigger hormonal responses frequently in response to sensory info from sight, sound, smell, etc. If you see and hear an explosion nearby - boom - norepinephrine and epinephrine are released instantly to stimulate various organs to go into "fight or flight" mode. A sweet taste could trigger responses to help the body get ready for incoming sugars. When those "sugars" don't appear, who knows - maybe the body does trigger a conservation mode by slowing down metabolism.

As far as rats - rat metabolism is generally going to be similar to human metabolism - same glands, hormones, biochemical processes inside cells, etc. And when you think about it, rats eat pretty much anything (even their own young), so they are similar to humans in that way as well. No, they don't have the ability to consciously control their eating habits because they are afraid of getting big furry, fat rolls on the sides of their ribs, but rat studies are a good first step in studying human things. Chimps and other primates are simply too expensive for most biomedical research studies, not to mention the regulations on using them are a nightmare to wade through. Even for rat research, the bureaucracy involved before starting a research project is unbelievable. You can feed a rat at home to your pet snake, but if you want to change its diet a little bit in a research setting, you'll have to wait for committee approvals, etc.

[Espi]

Exactly (about the hurdles you need to jump through and about a rat being more or less similar to humans, minus the psychological need to be bigger/smaller, whatever). It's very simple actually when you think about it. Up until recently we could safely assume that whenever we came across something that tasted very sweet (ripe fruit, honey or nuts (not really sweet but extremely tasty nonetheless) we could eat until our bellies would almost burst, since it would not be very likely that the same food comes along another time.

The metabolic slowdown does seem peculiar though and hard to pinpoint. Did it really happen or is it just speculation as it can be as simple as : more calories in as a result of tasting sweet food = more weight gain.

[Defiant1]

I think there are a bunch of different factors that prevent people from achieving their weight loss goals. Cynic pointed out initiative and that is very true. But I also feel as though there are some barriers in society that need to be broken down to help some people not be fat. For instance, where I live, it is cheaper for me to get a double cheeseburger from McDonalds than it is for me to buy 1 avocado. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford "better food choices" for myself and my family. But some people are not that fortunate.

For some families, it is more economically feasible to buy 5 pounds of ground chuck for a week as opposed to being able to buy leaner cuts and healthier choices. It may turn into a cycle. The kids grow up with this lifestyle and become fat, are unable to break down certain barriers keeping them from breaking the cycle, and then raise there own children the same making the obesity problem even worse. These are the people I have sympathy for.

But then you always have the fat ass people that just choose to eat at Olive Garden 4 nights a week because their Shrimp Scampi appetizer goes so well with the Tour of Italy.

[gobbla]

Thanks Dave.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Defiant1

I think there are a bunch of different factors that prevent people from achieving their weight loss goals. Cynic pointed out initiative and that is very true. But I also feel as though there are some barriers in society that need to be broken down to help some people not be fat. For instance, where I live, it is cheaper for me to get a double cheeseburger from McDonalds than it is for me to buy 1 avocado. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford "better food choices" for myself and my family. But some people are not that fortunate.

That is true. I was at the grocery store raing the produce section. Avacados I guess, are an exotic item. Some others that I wanted to get, like kiwi, were real expensive. I guess it's the distribution cost and it's not going to get better because the cost of petroleum continues to rise.

There is also some lifestyle issues surrounding this. My brother is a good example. His job is basically setting up IT storage systems for site all across the country. He's trraveling 10 months out of the year. It's rather difficult for him to eat healthy unless all he ate was salads, and even then, not all salad dressings are healthy.