BCAA supplement roundtable

[coach hale]

In depth conversation concerning BCAA supplements

Roundtable includes Alan Aragon, Layne Norton, Dan Moore, Bryan Haycock, Justin Harris, Martin Berkhan, and Marc McDougal
BCAA Supplementation Roundtable | Mind and Muscle


thanks
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com

[Frank.S]

What layne says in that is very interesting about free-form BCAAs vs whey. I dont know how backed up that is.. but, interesting none the less.

[Alcoholiday]

good article. thanks for posting.

[TheFitOne]

I am no expert on the subject. It seems to me that this is the only site that I have come across that tends to have a general opinion that supplemental BCAAs are not really necessary. Most other sites that I visit tend to have the opposite approach.

[cycomiko]

Originally Posted by layne

Even a few grams of BCAAs will spike plasma levels to a much greater extent than a 30 gram dose of whey protein. It will also impact protein synthesis to a greater degree (van Loon et al).

laynes still pushing Luv Van Loon's paper as evidence of the wonders of BCAA. its interesting he didnt provide any evidence for the claim of greater spike with a few grams of BCAA compared to 30g of whey, but uses that garbage pile of shit to try and say it increases greater protein synthesis.

Luc generally uses a metric ton of protein/leucine with carbohydrate and no nitrogenous control to examine things. If its the paper I am thinking of they gave the subjects eitehr 132grams of carbohydrates, or 132g of carbohdrates + ~90grams of whey hydrolysate or finally, 132g carbs, 90grams of whey hydrolystae plus ~45grams of leucine.

the final group achieved a miniscule increase in Fractional Synthetic rate compared to hte others. Well no shit, giving 50% more nitrogen and a lot more energy would generally cause some differencesi n that aspect. now compare it isocalorically and isonitrogenously to each other, aka have a group with an extra 45grams of whey hydrolysate. Then you may possibly beable to claim it impacts protein synthesis to a greater extent, otherwise you are just pulling shit out of research that doesnt show it.

[Alan Aragon]

In addition to that, he cites the Koopman study which added an extra ~40g leucine to one of the experimental treatments, and wouldn't ya know, protein synthesis increased!!!!1 Screw isonitrogenous/isocaloric comparisons, who needs that when nothing exciting will happen?

In Layne's defense however, he said this to conclude a debate I had with him on this same BroCAA topic:

"again Alan, I never said I could prove it. It's just a theory, nothing more, something i've constructed piecing together various other pieces of info. Obviously I wouldn't be happy unless I got to construct and run my own very tightly controlled study but I don't see getting the kind of money I'd need for said study. -Layne"

[LisaS]

so - what would have been a better study (assuming you were required to come up with one) - compare 40g leucine to 40g of a non-BCAA ? Glycine, alanine - would there be one that you could pick where you would believe a leucine effect?

[cycomiko]

A few of the groups have compared calorie matched stuff, I know Robert Wolfe has compared 16g of whey + 4g leucine to 20g whey with no difference in protein synthesis/net balance.

In terms of the van loon paper he mentioned they could have gone multiple groups (figures are very rough but provide the idea)

132g carbs
267g carbs
132g carbs + 90g whey + 45g leucine
132g carbs + 135g whey

Provides carbohydrate only control and calorie/carbohydrate control, plus two treatment groups with "matched" nitrogen sources in them

In Layne's defense however, he said this to conclude a debate I had with him on this same BroCAA topic:

Nice term, BroCAA...

To be a snarky science geek, for somebody who is a Phd candidate, and promotes himself with said credentials, you think he would make that disclaimer when he makes unsubstantiated claims. I try to do that whenever I am going out on a limb.

[Frank.S]

Keep in mind, from what ive seen layne works in conjunction with a supplement company if i remember right. Lots/most of his information is excellent ive found though.