Gluconeogenesis and TNT (or similar) diet

[LunchboxMan]

I've read the TNT book and (mostly) understand the concept but i'm curious how it would work with respect to gluconeogenesis. so on a low-carb diet, you want fat to be your body's primary fuel source. now if your diet is also rich in protein, it seems logical to me that your body would resort to gluconeogenesis quite readily since it wants to obtain glucose (assuming nothing in glycogen stores). is this what happens? Also, how does gluconeogenesis and glycogen storage coexist?

thanks!

[coach hale]

gluconeogenesis begins 4-6 hours after last meal and becomes fully active as stores of glycogen are depleted (10-18hrs)

In the early stages approx 90% of gluconeogenesis occurs in liver but with prolonged fasting (or lack carb consump) the kidneys become major players for glucose production as well

This topic is covered in depth in my books Knowledge and Nonsense and The Carbohydrate Files

thanks
coach hale
www.maxcondition.com

[galya]

I've read the TNT book and (mostly) understand the concept but i'm curious how it would work with respect to gluconeogenesis. so on a low-carb diet, you want fat to be your body's primary fuel source. now if your diet is also rich in protein, it seems logical to me that your body would resort to gluconeogenesis quite readily since it wants to obtain glucose (assuming nothing in glycogen stores). is this what happens? Also, how does gluconeogenesis and glycogen storage coexist?
thanks!

This is what happens initially, which is why you can eat more protein the first couple of days. If you eat too much, then using fat as a primary source of fuel might not happen as you though it would. If you find that you are not losing or losing too slowly, you might want to see if your protein intake is too high. Your body will be making glucose for tissues that need it, hence you will have less available for storage.

[RobLL]

Dr Bernstein in his book suggests that about half of the protein you consume can be converted to glucose, I am not remembering if that is total or excess from normal need. In any event those on diabetic medications and trying to lose weight need to pay close attention to protein consumption.

[galya]

I believe that is just an average conversion rate for excess protein.

[LunchboxMan]

interesting. so if i go over anything beyond ~ 1g/lb bodyweight, i should trim it down and replace with fat to limit gluconeogenesis, right? (assuming sedentary lifestyle but with weight training and cardio).

[RobLL]

Originally Posted by LunchboxMan

interesting. so if i go over anything beyond ~ 1g/lb bodyweight, i should trim it down and replace with fat to limit gluconeogenesis, right? (assuming sedentary lifestyle but with weight training and cardio).

I think it would be right to consider it. Whether it is applicable to you would probably depend on whether or not you have impaired glucose function. Adam Campbell addresses the question in his book on determining how much carbs (and by extension, protein) you can cope with.

[ZDrax]

You have a couple options to avoid gluconeogenesis.

1. Aim for a ketogenic diet. Lowered protein and higher fat will yield greater levels of fat oxidation. The kicker though is that you're EATING more fat.

2. Eat some fruit (probably your best bet). The fructose will maintain liver glycogen sending some rad signals to your body, like "we're not dying so maintain thyroid support" and keep your body primed for anabolism once you hit your carbing phases. 2 - 3 pieces (netting 40 - 60g of usable carbs) should fit even into low-carb phases of dieting.