Eat & lift or lift & eat?

[Espi]

To eat before or to eat after lifting, that is.

Let me explain. I'm zigzagging my calories so that generally I eat somewhere between 500-1000 kcal less than maintenance (approx. 2300) on rest days than on lifting days.

Lately though I've had it happen 3 times in less than 2 weeks that I spontaneously broke my own rules and overate on a rest day.
Usually I lift every other day, so each lifting day is followed by a rest day and vice versa.

Lo & behold: I felt more steady throughout the workout and did more sets than I would have done during a workout that followed after a low-kcal rest day.

This made me put my thinking cap on.
1. I'm working out (weights plus cardio) every other day (the setup I'm always going back to).
2. lifting+cardio depletes glycogen
3. eating more carbs fills up glycogen = better performance

In that case it makes more sense then to eat more (carbs) the night before a workout day.

So, why then do most people eat more after a workout? That's because you are more sensitive to insulin (less insulin resistant) and it's anabolik.

Eating more carbs the night before will then be bad news if you're insulin resistant (that's what I seem to be as carbs make me sleepy). That's why having carbs 30-60min pre-WO never worked for me = complete loss of strength.
But when I eat less carbs after lifting, I'll remain more glycogen-depleted and burn slightly more fat, right?

Can someone help me out in deciding which approach would be better. If eating these carbs the night before a workout day would really be better, why don't more bodybuilders do this? I know nearly all endurance weenies do it.. but I don't know anyone who's after body recomp doing the same.

I've decided to give this approach = eating more carbs the night before a lifting day a try, especially since I'm working towards improving my 1RM on all lifts (presses, DL, front squat, weighted chins).
So, in this case the carbs should help with better performance. But will it be worse when I am also striving for better body (re)composition?

[Espi]

Still waiting for comments from others...

Sofar, my own results have been awesome: easier to eat less on average and improved performance.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by Espi

Still waiting for comments from others...

Sofar, my own results have been awesome: easier to eat less on average and improved performance.

Can't leave you hanging, Espi.

Actually, I don't know enough to answer your question in detail, but, in terms of performance, the answer is probably:

BOTH!

Two topics that have inklings of answer are this topic and this topic.

The bottom line seems to be getting some good carbs in your system prior to a workout (a good meal 1-2 hours prior) and then a good meal with recovery carbs within the 1-2 hour window afterwards. Also, at breakfast. Aside from that, particularly if body composition is a concern, carbs can be lighter the rest of the day, and on off days.

I have no idea what my insulin sensitivity is. All I know is that if I eat more, and particularly carbs, I feel better and have more workout energy, up to a point at least. If I let myself get a bit too carb-fested, then I start to go the other direction.

Sticking with the above guidelines works OK for me in terms of energy and strength most of the timed, whether trying to cut fat or bulk up a bit. Granted, for me, I am neither lean nor muscular in the overall scheme of things, so perhaps I'm all off track and a failure. I mostly want to have decent workouts and make it through an evening of classes with focus and energy.

[Espi]

I know one is 'supposed' to perform better with carbs pre-workout, but this has not been my experience. A teeny bit of carbs yes, and then from fruit like an apple , a small amount of raisins , half a banana. But eating an entire banana, more raisins and so on, has always been detrimental to my efforts in the gym.
Twice I've even had to go home when I had devoured too many carbs at home about 1 hr before I went to the gym. I just was so extremely weak that I couldn't lift anything properly.

But since it's also true that carbs taking during a workout don't really improve performance , other than it prevents a drop in blood sugar levels, it finally dawned on me that I might try to increase glycogen levels overnight , so that the extreme fluctuations in blood sugar levels won't affect my performance as much.

And indeed, this has been my (current) experience.

Taking in carbs after a workout does indeed help with faster recovery , but it has also often made me fall 'head over heels' into a 'feeding frenzy'. Hence why I am constantly looking for methods to increase performance (more glycogen = better performance) without interrupting fat burning : lower glycogen = somewhat more fat being burnt, right?

If I'm talking nonsense, please correct me

The only caveat is : how bad is it to have superhigh blood sugar levels and then possible a hypo when being asleep? It takes much longer for glucose to be cleared from the blood stream when HR is low. It's a valid concern as I've been tracking my bs levels again and they are consistently in the pre-diabetic range when I wake up. However, then they go down again to healthier sub-6 levels provided I eat low-carb.
When doing the oral glucose tolerance test (100g of glucose) my bs level went up as high as 10.8 (194mg/dl) and stayed high for over 2 hrs while it's supposed to be cleared within 1-1.5 hrs.

So, I'm often feeling as if one can never win.
- excellent performance when doing carb-ups night before but too high bs levels
- decent performance when taking in carbs during a workout
- poor performance when taking in carbs pre- or post-workout but OTOH , better for blood glucose levels?

[Espi]

Can't ETA: am experimenting with R-ALA (alpha lipoic acid) again to see whether it helps with carb loading. It's proven to help as it's an insulin mimetic (?) but I guess it's hard to see a difference without a monitor (am out of strips)

[Chris Correia]

There's more potential science/medicine involved in this such that I can't comment with any sense.

Have you undergone tests to assess how your body handles carbs and insulin? That may be something to get done, but I'm not sure what it will tell you about how to proceed. Someone else will have to comment on that.

Sorry I'm an unqualified, ignorant busy body.

[Espi]

No, your help is much appreciated. Especially like the thread you started yourself.
One interesting effect of doing the carb-loading the night before was that I felt no need to put carbs in my mouth when training and could just as well have done without them.
Whereas normally I'm feeling that training intensity/volume falters quickly when I'm not carb'd up.
Strength is more or less the same, but work volume (amt of sets) and quality deterioriates.

Timing the nutrients is just a bit of a PITA when blood sugar fluctuations come into play and low-GI carbs don't cut it either pre-WO. It's interesting though that a slow-carb drink I'm using now has such a good effect, probably because it's loaded with minerals, vitamins and taurine as well.