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A few of us are having a discussion over at the Men's Health forums regarding the alleged health risks of drinking milk. Adam Campbell mentioned that you two have discussed rBGH and IGF-1 in the past, and that you informed him (paraphrasing) that both of these hormones are destroyed during our digestive process... meaning that they don't get absorbed into our bloodstream.
Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? I've always gotten the impression that the "milk is bad" crew relies more on word associations (extra hormones = BAD!!!) than they do actual hard science, and I have the feeling that this is the case here ... but the absorption/breakdown of these specific hormones is something that I know very little about. Do you mind explaining a bit, or perhaps pointing me in the right direction to find some good research?
Thanks, broham.
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I'd like to hear about this too. I stopped drinking regular milk about 2 years ago because I always felt like crap after I drank it, and basically blamed all the usual suspects (hormones, etc.) Recently I tried out organic milk, and have been perfectly fine with it after 2 weeks.
A few of us are having a discussion over at the Men's Health forums regarding the alleged health risks of drinking milk. Adam Campbell mentioned that you two have discussed rBGH and IGF-1 in the past, and that you informed him (paraphrasing) that both of these hormones are destroyed during our digestive process... meaning that they don't get absorbed into our bloodstream.
Would you mind elaborating on this a bit? I've always gotten the impression that the "milk is bad" crew relies more on word associations (extra hormones = BAD!!!) than they do actual hard science, and I have the feeling that this is the case here ... but the absorption/breakdown of these specific hormones is something that I know very little about. Do you mind explaining a bit, or perhaps pointing me in the right direction to find some good research?
the raw milk craze is catching on. A lot of people claim that allergies and such are reduced with raw milk. They say the same thing with goat's milk too. I think it's that pasteurization supposedly kills a lot of the enzymes that are used to help us digest milk easier. Have you had a chance to try this before ian? Read up on it. You're finding more and more people who are jumping on the raw milk bandwagon. From what i hear from a lot of strongman competitors, it's an extremely easy way to gain good weight.
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But a lot of people are also stupid. Raw milk is often fattier than normal milk. This is because typically it is not standardised, a process where the milk is mixed to create a standard level fo protein, fat and carbohydrates. More calories, more weight. Magic stuff. Unfortunately, the lack of standardization also means that the milk you get today is not the same macronutrient blend that you got last week, or last month.
A variety of enzymes are still active in pasterurized milk, but the more heat sensitive ones can lose activity, partially or completely.
However, the enzymes within milk are not a requirement for digestion. The body dose a particularly nice job of digesting food normally.
Cooking meat also denatures some of the enzymes, but shockingly, we still digest meat pretty well.
The raw milk / allergy thing is an interesting concept. However, most of hte researhc is not particularly well controlled, especially for the on-farm practice of heating their milk prior to consumption, to minimize bacterial related issues.
The use of BST is decreasing in USA. The hormones they worry about are also present in normal milk. But due to the hormones being proteins, they are digested as any other protein. This is why we inject the hormones to the poeple we are wanting to treat. If it was that easy for oral bioavailabiltiy, why would we bother invasively dosing them...
The use of BST is decreasing in USA. The hormones they worry about are also present in normal milk. But due to the hormones being proteins, they are digested as any other protein. This is why we inject the hormones to the poeple we are wanting to treat. If it was that easy for oral bioavailabiltiy, why would we bother invasively dosing them...
Well put, Cyko Aaron.
To paraphrase a fact sheet I came across (Aaron go ahead & add your inimitable Aaron-ness to this), there are two main types of hormones – steroid hormones, which are bioavailable orally, and protein hormones which are denatured in the digestive tract before hitting the blood. Protein hormones such as insulin must be administered by a non-oral route such as injection or inhalation in order to work. Since rBST and IGF-1 are protein hormones, not steroid hormones, they're destroyed by digestion, which greatly reduces the chance of them doing jack diddly.
Since rBST and IGF-1 are protein hormones, not steroid hormones, they're destroyed by digestion, which greatly reduces the chance of them doing jack diddly.
in adults. In my thinking, infants, on the other hand, are set up to absorb things like IgA intact from the gut - and who knows what other things might get absorbed with what consequences if present in their diet. Not that anyone here would be feeding an infant cow's milk ...
I'm a lacto-ovo veg who gets most of my protein from dairy, so these things cause me some concern.
1st off, correlation does not equal causation. Here's a more recent study with twice as many subjects. It failed to find a link between dairy & prostate cancer:
You have to consider that all of these charges leveled against milk are the result of uncontrolled research. Milk's positives, demonstrated with randomized controlled trials, far outweigh any potential negatives - all of which haven't shown causal relationsips.
1st off, correlation does not equal causation. Here's a more recent study with twice as many subjects. It failed to find a link between dairy & prostate cancer:
You have to consider that all of these charges leveled against milk are the result of uncontrolled research. Milk's positives, demonstrated with randomized controlled trials, far outweigh any potential negatives - all of which haven't shown causal relationsips.
Totally agree that correlation does not equal causation. I am still consuming large amounts of dairy but would still like to see more research (just to worry myself a little more, I guess).
The msnbc article about Parkinson's is pretty recent and I have not read anything else about that. Do you know of any contrary research?
in adults. In my thinking, infants, on the other hand, are set up to absorb things like IgA intact from the gut - and who knows what other things might get absorbed with what consequences if present in their diet. Not that anyone here would be feeding an infant cow's milk ...
ask yourself what human milk has in it, especially colostrum provided within the early stages of gut maturation.
The msnbc article about Parkinson's is pretty recent and I have not read anything else about that. Do you know of any contrary research?
There has been around 3-4 papers out on it.
One of them was from hawai, around at time frame that they consumed toxin tainted milk, a pesticide or similar from memory.
Others have crap food recall, and then there is the Harvard one that is starting to suffer reliability issues due to the subject numbers dropping off massively.
The latest one out was strange was well, but its been awhile since i critiqued it
1) how much rBST makes it to the milk (most of the people who dislike it complain of teh raised IGF1 in Bovine milk)?
2) BST is not bioactive in humans, specificity is a killer.
3) HST is bioactive
4) I was not just talking about BST/HST
1) how much rBST makes it to the milk (most of the people who dislike it complain of teh raised IGF1 in Bovine milk)?
2) BST is not bioactive in humans, specificity is a killer.
3) HST is bioactive
4) I was not just talking about BST/HST
Cyco,
I'm not quite picking up what you're putting down. Mind clarifying your point a bit?
__________________ You're not the only one improving yourself... I worked out with a dumbbell today -- I feel vigorous!!!
bovine somatatrophin is different to human somatatrophin. Even when injected, it does nothing.
Obne of the major issues of treatment wit hBST is that it rasies levels of IGF1 in the animals milk. Bovine and human IGF are identical. If the gut is immature, active IGF can (also doesnt mean it does, to any great extent) pass across where it normally could not and do stuff.
However, human colostrum is very rich in IGF, and there are still levels of IGF in mature human milk (as well as bioactive human somatatrophin) and these levels are similar to bovine milk.
For cows milk to cause an issue with IGF, then so would human milk.
Of course, that would assume that milk derived infant formula had detectible levels of IGF
bovine somatatrophin is different to human somatatrophin. Even when injected, it does nothing.
Obne of the major issues of treatment wit hBST is that it rasies levels of IGF1 in the animals milk. Bovine and human IGF are identical. If the gut is immature, active IGF can (also doesnt mean it does, to any great extent) pass across where it normally could not and do stuff.
However, human colostrum is very rich in IGF, and there are still levels of IGF in mature human milk (as well as bioactive human somatatrophin) and these levels are similar to bovine milk.
For cows milk to cause an issue with IGF, then so would human milk.
Of course, that would assume that milk derived infant formula had detectible levels of IGF
Ok gotcha. I thought you were still referring to problems with adult digestion ... but you're still discussing Lisa's comment from before. Thanks.
__________________ You're not the only one improving yourself... I worked out with a dumbbell today -- I feel vigorous!!!
But a lot of people are also stupid. Raw milk is often fattier than normal milk. This is because typically it is not standardised, a process where the milk is mixed to create a standard level fo protein, fat and carbohydrates. More calories, more weight. Magic stuff. Unfortunately, the lack of standardization also means that the milk you get today is not the same macronutrient blend that you got last week, or last month.
A variety of enzymes are still active in pasterurized milk, but the more heat sensitive ones can lose activity, partially or completely.
However, the enzymes within milk are not a requirement for digestion. The body dose a particularly nice job of digesting food normally.
Cooking meat also denatures some of the enzymes, but shockingly, we still digest meat pretty well.
The raw milk / allergy thing is an interesting concept. However, most of hte researhc is not particularly well controlled, especially for the on-farm practice of heating their milk prior to consumption, to minimize bacterial related issues.
The use of BST is decreasing in USA. The hormones they worry about are also present in normal milk. But due to the hormones being proteins, they are digested as any other protein. This is why we inject the hormones to the poeple we are wanting to treat. If it was that easy for oral bioavailabiltiy, why would we bother invasively dosing them...
you say that hormones are present in normal milk. But does this imply that you're using cows who are given hormones? or, are they farm raised cows? or does it make any difference?
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you say that hormones are present in normal milk. But does this imply that you're using cows who are given hormones? or, are they farm raised cows? or does it make any difference?
Organic(sic), grass fed, the "best milk you can possibly ever buy(sic)" will still provide a variety hormones. So does goat milk, so does human milk. So will dead animal flesh... hormones do not just dissapear because you cut the steak from the ass of the cow.
Organic(sic), grass fed, the "best milk you can possibly ever buy(sic)" will still provide a variety hormones. So does goat milk, so does human milk. So will dead animal flesh... hormones do not just dissapear because you cut the steak from the ass of the cow.
i was always under the impression that animals were given growth hormones to be bigger than they are supposed to be for more meat and such. What's your take on the hormones put in animals? Bad or overrated?
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i was always under the impression that animals were given growth hormones to be bigger than they are supposed to be for more meat and such. What's your take on the hormones put in animals? Bad or overrated?
Hormones aren't only given to animals to get bigger. It happens normally and his necessary in any living animal just like blood.
Alan, milk question for you...
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