Carb levels when losing fat. Alan???

[Chris Correia]

I know the bottom line in losing fat is to create a caloric deficit.

I know many people say, essentially, the less carbs the better when wanting to lose fat.

I'm wondering is if there is an amount of carbs, presumeably higher than a ketosis level, that one should generally stay under when trying to lose fat. I've been dropping some fat, and I've consciously been letting my carb levels vary, partly for psychological benefits and partly and energy benefits. I've pretty consistently been under 100g/day these past three weeks, but sometimes even under 50g, other times over 100g. But I'm also hitting my usual plateau weight. So, I'm just curious as to what some folks, particularly a really smart and experience guy like Alan says.

I put Alan's name in my topic because I thought I read that he/you recommends, at least sometimes, more carbs in one's diet, generally at least, than other people might recommend.

Thanks in advance for any insight/input/guidance!

[ZDrax]

Alan and I are pretty much in congruence with regard to carb levels. We chatted over the phone about this very topic on Friday. Assuming protein is set high enough for one's hypocaloric thrashing,(1.3g/lb of target bodyweight as a minimum, and may need to go up depending on carb levels) carbs are going to be where you'll find your surplus or deficit.

Carbs should be set as high as possible while still losing fat. Probably not the answer most are looking for. For a targeted fat-loss phase, protein would be at 1.3g/lb minimum, fat at 0.4 - 0.5g/lb of target bodyweight, with carbs being the manipulated macronutrient. I'd start at .75g/lb of target bodyweight for your off or light cardio days and somewhere between 1 and 1.5g/lb for workout days. You can get really fancy, and depending on how you like to set up your diet, could do 1 - 2 roving "free" meals stacked on top of this paradigm, or go for a full on 3 tier system.

Personally, with a workout volume of 7 hours a week (four weight training sessions, one HIIT session, lots of low-intensity cardio thanks to my urban lifestyle), I'm losing fat quickly and consistently at .75g/lb of TBW on off days, and around 1.25g/lb of TBW on workout days. Given that 1g/lb of TBW in carbs are bracketed around my workouts, I have .25g/lb of TBW to play with the rest of the day. I have one or two free meals a week where I don't count macros and just have a plateful of good carby stuff or whatever.

Alan's discussed this before, but his clients whom maintain 6 - 7% bodyfat year round are consuming 40 - 55% of their daily calories from carbohydrate with an average exercise volume of 8 - 13 hours a week.

I know the lowest Alan takes clients is usually .5g/lb of TBW in carbs on off-days and .75 - 1g/lb of TBW on workout days, with a refeed day of 2g/lb of TBW in carbs 1 - 2 a week depending on results.

[Alan Aragon]

^Took the words right out of my mouth. Whoa man, your memory is amazing. Plus it does help that we talk about the epistemology of bro-ology on a regular basis.

Your current plan just needs a slight kick in the ass. Try the "guerilla" culking protocol that ZD mentioned: 0.5g/lb of TBW in carbs on off-days and 0.75 - 1g/lb of your target bodyweight on workout days, with a hyperfeed day of 2g/lb of TBW in carbs 1 - 2 a week depending on results.

[Chris Correia]

Thanks a whole bunch, guys. I've got to process that (meaing, read it more carefully). I'll post back any further questions.

[Frank.S]

I have nothing really to add, but,

Ive been doing this, strength has been going up, fat is way don, and to be honest, I feel ive gained a *little* lbm. I eat one meal a week not to plan (ie ill go out and eat a big steak/potato/garlic bread.. etc.. it all could fit in I suppose, but its to high cals).

Its nice and easy to stick to. I like to think its pretty balanced.

[ConcreteShoeMan]

This thread is very timely for me. Thanks for the asking the question Chris!

I was just going to start doing some carb cycling this week to see what effect it has on my fat loss efforts. I seem to be fairly carb tolerant (having lost > 180lbs on a carb packed diet in the past) but now I'm down to this stubborn last 15lbs or so.

I've been eating in the .75g/lb of TBW (approx 25-30% of total calories from carbs). I will try cycling up/down depending on training days and see how well it works.

Thanks again!

[Chris Correia]

Just the notion of the mental boost of the higher level of carbs is helpful.
Even "loading" a limited number carbs (on a lower carb regimen) before my class times in the evenings-- teaching for three hours, possibly working out during the third hour, depending the the day -- is tough. Energy and focus tend to suck. More carbs sounds good!

Also, more carbs make it easier socially, it's a friendlier plan.

Question: Fat and protein based on TBW or lean mass? (although, you can't call what I have "mass." LOL )

Comment: I have no idea what you mean by tier. LOL

Question/comment: I assume the nature of the activity -- weight training or intense (an)aerobic activity -- meaning martial arts class in my case -- doesn't matter.

Based on those general numbers, at about 150-155 TBW right now, I would be, ballpark-on-average at around 2,000 cals a day, which, coincidentally, seems, my magic point for fat loss, depending on activity, of course.

Frank: good to hear.

Thanks again, guys. I really appreciate it. Does this mean I should buy Alan's book?

I'll work with this.

[gobbla]

Everyone should buy Alan's book. I built a spreadsheet out of the "long" formula in the back that's met with a great deal of success from my unit. Plug in 4-5 numbers and whamo, calories and macros figured out...away you go.

[L'ilJ]

Originally Posted by gobbla

Everyone should buy Alan's book. I built a spreadsheet out of the "long" formula in the back that's met with a great deal of success from my unit. Plug in 4-5 numbers and whamo, calories and macros figured out...away you go.

I just bought his book today! Looking forward to reading it.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by gobbla

Everyone should buy Alan's book. I built a spreadsheet out of the "long" formula in the back that's met with a great deal of success from my unit.

you're a pig

[gobbla]

Bigger and harder than ever before baby.

[Lost Dog]

I'll trust you...

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by gobbla

Everyone should buy Alan's book. I built a spreadsheet out of the "long" formula in the back that's met with a great deal of success from my unit. Plug in 4-5 numbers and whamo, calories and macros figured out...away you go.

You're not getting a cut, are you?

And, no, I don't care to hear any more about your unit.

[ZDrax]

Originally Posted by Chris Correia

Just the notion of the mental boost of the higher level of carbs is helpful.
Even "loading" a limited number carbs (on a lower carb regimen) before my class times in the evenings-- teaching for three hours, possibly working out during the third hour, depending the the day -- is tough. Energy and focus tend to suck. More carbs sounds good!

Also, more carbs make it easier socially, it's a friendlier plan.

Question: Fat and protein based on TBW or lean mass? (although, you can't call what I have "mass." LOL )

Comment: I have no idea what you mean by tier. LOL

Question/comment: I assume the nature of the activity -- weight training or intense (an)aerobic activity -- meaning martial arts class in my case -- doesn't matter.

Based on those general numbers, at about 150-155 TBW right now, I would be, ballpark-on-average at around 2,000 cals a day, which, coincidentally, seems, my magic point for fat loss, depending on activity, of course.

Frank: good to hear.

Thanks again, guys. I really appreciate it. Does this mean I should buy Alan's book?

I'll work with this.

Yeah. You'll see "optimal" results if your carbs are bracketed immediately pre/post on workout days. Scooting carbs near points of activity on non-workout days isn't a bad idea either.

Hack calories and carbs FIRST at points away from your workout. Attack those calories/carbs as last resort.

All calcs are based on Target Bodyweight.

Tiers refer to the "carb levels." I.e., three days @ .5g/lb of TBW, two days at @ 1.0g/lb of TBW, and two days at 2.0g/lb of TBW = three tier system, or three carb levels.

Alan indeed has calcs based on intensity of exercise, and they indeed work well. This particular setup is straightforward, easy, and gets you rockin' with little set up out of the box.

Buy Alan's book. AMAZING. I refer to it all the time.

FWIW, you may need to become more aggressive with protein as you near the end of your cut and increase calories to prevent excess catabolism. Counter-intuitive, but so, sometimes, are our bodies .

[gobbla]

Chris> Think of the book telling you things that you already know but in a way that actually makes you believe it\put it into practice.

[Chris Correia]

Originally Posted by gobbla

Chris> Think of the book telling you things that you already know but in a way that actually makes you believe it\put it into practice.

I actually understand that. Good explanation.

[coach hale]

when you look at the primary research data comparing diets with equal protein equal cals (isocaloric diets) and varying amounts of fat and carb minus water balance no difference in bodyfat loss

now when considering absolute weight particularly in short term expect greater loss with lowered carbs (decreases in glycogen= decreases in water storage)

some people function well in ketosis while others do horrible (sometimes distinction of these types are made with the description of low and high fat dietary phenotyping- biology and environment)

also when reaches single digits of bdft extracellular water retention becomes more important if concerned with appearance - this is where the process of drying out comes in another matter altoghether

on a final note cals are sufficiently low below admr consistently weight loss will occur

no carbs are not the evil as some would like you to believe (keto fanatics)

another thinng no you dont have to be in ketosis to drop bodyfat



thanks
coach hale
www.maxcondition.com