Sleep / anyone have ideas for aid?

[ljk]

I sleep really poorly and have for many years. I fall asleep easily enough, but it seems that without fail, will wake up within 45 to 90 minutes of first going to bed. Then I wake up again anywhere from 1 to 4 times throughout the night. After 3 a.m. I sleep pretty well until I have to get up between 6 and 7:45-ish (it varies.) Sometimes when I wake up I'm hungry, but often I just wake up for no apparent reason.

Needless to say, I rarely feel refreshed or well rested in the morning.

I have cut out coffee in the past without any difference and currently have no more than 2 cups/day and always before 11 a.m. or so.

I have tried the following sleep aids. I may be forgetting something but this is the bulk of them:

Prescription sleeping pill - Imovane - didn't work and left me incapacitated for the day (totally drugged, sluggish and groggy)
Prescription anti-depressants - little improvements

Herbal remedies:
5-htp, melatonin (combination of short- and long-acting), valerian, passionflower, herbal teas like skullcap and chamomile, calcium/magnesium, ZMA...not sure if that's everything.

I take fish oil and evening primrose as supplements also.

At my wit's end here. My doctor can't help and I already did a sleep study (now that was freaky) with no conclusive result. I even saw an EAP counselour for cognitive-behavioural therapy.

I just want to remain asleep for more than one hour at a time.

[Victoria]

I used to have the same problem, though your's sounds more severe. I've tried some of what you listed with pretty good success. However, one thing not on your list that works well for me is Calms Forte. I'd say it's strength is somewhere between velarian and prescription. It might leave a slight groggy feeling in the morning but it doesn't last long, and it's worth it to get a better night's sleep.

Good luck!!!

[Leigh P.]

Because your problem does not seem to be heavily chemical (would explain your lack of reaction to those styles of medication) then I would wager you issues are in recovery.

Do you take in enough calories for the amount of exercise you put forth?

Almost all of my girls had some form of insomnia when they started with me.
Sleep loss is a sign or hormone imbalance that can be brought on by a long running caloric deficit.

This is of course with not knowing nothing of your previous training history, but when we see that a persons sleep disorders are not based on specific sleep distortion patterns, then we have to turn to diet and recovery.
Check list...

-long period of deficit or only short periods of rebuild
-long periods of low carbs
-skipping of meals
-lack of hunger first thing in the morning
-bad digestion
-fatigue

In short continuing on a course that has no end. Trying to achieve the same goals year after year after year. This leading to breaking down the body over time. This effect everything from sleep to injury and recovery. If any of this hits a bell, post your current situation and routine, diet, etc.

[Victoria]

Interesting, Leigh. I'm a bit of a chronic undereater but have been making a conscious effort to correct that. Since I've been eating more, now that you mention those things, I have noticed that my recoveries are much faster, I have more energy in general, especially during workouts, and I'm sleeping much better (no aids). But, this is Lauren's thread. I'll be interested in reading more about.

[Egham]

I'd focus on Leigh's thoughts first. If they don't help, there are other prescription drugs out there.

Mrs. Egham recently underwent a 10 day high-dose regimen of steroids that kept her absolutely wired ( I ripped off Cappy's tag and called her my Sexy Turbo Chick) and unable to sleep more than about 30 minutes at a time. Her doctor prescribed Ambien (Zolpidem) and that seemed to work fairly well for her, giving her 4 to 5 hours sleep before she needed another.

[ljk]

Originally Posted by Victoria

I used to have the same problem, though your's sounds more severe. I've tried some of what you listed with pretty good success. However, one thing not on your list that works well for me is Calms Forte. I'd say it's strength is somewhere between velarian and prescription. It might leave a slight groggy feeling in the morning but it doesn't last long, and it's worth it to get a better night's sleep.

Good luck!!!

That's homeopathic right? I think I bought that before. It sounds familiar.

[ljk]

Leigh:
I have crappy digestion and don't eat a lot of carbs (because of said crappy digestion.) My stomach feels much better when I don't eat starches, plus I can't eat wheat or gluten or oats anyway.

I don't think I am in a deficit because my weight is stable. I do train hard but take 1-2 days off each week. Currently I do 4 weight sessions and 2 hard cardio sessions per week. I have a desk job and sit on my butt 8 hours per day!

[mikex1337]

I would not take anything synthetic for sleeping problems. There are many psychological methods you can use to fix this problem. Or even try some herbal medicines. I personally just don't like ingesting things that are not natural.

[ljk]

I have tried natural methods along with psychological stuff. It's not helping. While I see your point, there are natural things that can kill you just as much as a synthetic substance.

[ljk]

my problem is not getting to sleep but STAYING asleep. is this good for that?
I do believe I tried it but did not find it to be effective.

I also tried l-tryptophan (forgot to put that in earlier.)

Originally Posted by Victoria

I used to have the same problem, though your's sounds more severe. I've tried some of what you listed with pretty good success. However, one thing not on your list that works well for me is Calms Forte. I'd say it's strength is somewhere between velarian and prescription. It might leave a slight groggy feeling in the morning but it doesn't last long, and it's worth it to get a better night's sleep.

Good luck!!!

[drs]

Currently, the most effective medications for staying asleep without causing hangover are Lunesta and Ambien CR. I'm glad that you have had a sleep study, as this rules out serious sleep pathology. Good luck. You have severe chronic middle insomnia and prescription medications seem justified. If you live in an urban area you could cosider seeing a physician who is certified in sleep medicine. You could just call and ask if your regular doctor would be willing to prescribe a few to try.

[Victoria]

Originally Posted by ljk

my problem is not getting to sleep but STAYING asleep. is this good for that?

Are you asking about the Calms Forte? It keeps me asleep straight through the night which is also one of my complaints when not sleeping well. Of course, not having gotten up at all to pee makes for a very "urgent" awakening!

[ljk]

These 2 meds aren't available in Canada. I did try Imovane, which left me feeling utterly groggy, drugged and useless for over a day, along with not helping me sleep in the first place.

Originally Posted by drs

Currently, the most effective medications for staying asleep without causing hangover are Lunesta and Ambien CR. I'm glad that you have had a sleep study, as this rules out serious sleep pathology. Good luck. You have severe chronic middle insomnia and prescription medications seem justified. If you live in an urban area you could cosider seeing a physician who is certified in sleep medicine. You could just call and ask if your regular doctor would be willing to prescribe a few to try.

[Espi]

I'm using L-tryptophan sometimes, but you mention it and it works about the same as 5-HTP.

But actually the best I ever did was taking a larger carb-heavy meal about 30-60 mins before going to bed. I'm sleeping wonderfully ever since then.

Generally though, unless I'm on a very low carb diet or overexercsing, I sleep just fine.
Re overexercising, I still remember a stint of 3 weeks in which I was really overexercising lots for days on end (a gruelling cycling holiday) and I barely slept 3hrs/night. T'here's a very strong connection between calories/carbs and sleep.


I do *NOT* sleep well when there's dairy in that meal. From one day to the other i was unable to sleep throughout the night when I adopted eating dairy (cottage cheese or Quark) in the last meal. The very same night I dropped that habit, I could sleep throughout the night again.

[ljk]

Eating carbs didn't help. I've tried that~~

Man, my body is retarded eh.

[Espi]

Train less
But seriously, if I'd trained 6x/wk I'd be overtrained very soon. Even 4 sessions were too much, which is why I always combine WL+cardio as one session and then have 3 or 4 days off in a week depending on whether I train 3x/wk or EOD.

[LisaS]

do you have trouble going back to sleep when you wake up - lying awake for a long time? or do you go right back to sleep but just don't feel rested in the morning?

have you tried any white noise to help mask sounds in the night and maybe you'll stay asleep?