Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
Got the results of my latest physical today. While things are pretty good overall (total cholesterol 180, triglycerides 47), my doctor doesn't like my LDL/HDL ratio -- LDL is 130 and HDL is 41.
His advice is (get this!) to eat a 1500 calorie/day low fat and low cholesterol diet. Personally, I think the suggested diet is utter crap. I ran the numbers on Fitday, and it's 50% carb, 25% protein (80 grams), 25% fat. You eat refined white carbs at every meal -- bagel for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, potato and roll at dinner.
Right now I typically eat about 2200 calories a day, approximately 40% P, 30% C and 30%F. The only grain carbs I usually eat are some oatmeal for breakfast. Granted, the several days before my physical were at the Summit, where I wasn't exactly in compliance.
Can anyone point me to some more recent research that might suggest a better plan for lowering LDL and raising HDL? The only thing I found so far is an article on T-Nation that's based mainly on some Russian research from 10-12 years ago.
Thanks much!
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
I realize that changing the cholesterol numbers isn't a life-or-death situation, but I'd really like to be armed with some decent research before I discuss this with the doc.
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
Bill - I think you are right that the docs proposed diet really is not helpful. See a variety of people: Adam Campbell, Mike Roussell, Regina W and others, fat does not increase cholesterol in the absence of excess carbs. Or at least that is how I read them. And your right, not an emergency, but something to work on. Rob
Got the results of my latest physical today. While things are pretty good overall (total cholesterol 180, triglycerides 47), my doctor doesn't like my LDL/HDL ratio -- LDL is 130 and HDL is 41.
His advice is (get this!) to eat a 1500 calorie/day low fat and low cholesterol diet. Personally, I think the suggested diet is utter crap. I ran the numbers on Fitday, and it's 50% carb, 25% protein (80 grams), 25% fat. You eat refined white carbs at every meal -- bagel for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, potato and roll at dinner.
Right now I typically eat about 2200 calories a day, approximately 40% P, 30% C and 30%F. The only grain carbs I usually eat are some oatmeal for breakfast. Granted, the several days before my physical were at the Summit, where I wasn't exactly in compliance.
Can anyone point me to some more recent research that might suggest a better plan for lowering LDL and raising HDL? The only thing I found so far is an article on T-Nation that's based mainly on some Russian research from 10-12 years ago.
Thanks much!
Hold the phone.
1) Your numbers are far from being in the panic zone.
2) Unless you have the full compliment of risk factors (obesity, high stress, high tri's, high glucose, high blood pressure, sedentary lifestyle, excessive smoking & drinking, etc), a slightly low HDL count is hardly a factor.
3) I personally wouldn't worry about it. If you're bent on improving your ratio, there's a bunch of things you can do (increase your intake of olive oil, fish oil, unsalted nuts, avocado, flaxseed). But again, you're worrying over NOTHING.
4) Your doctor's advice was flat-out horrible. Especially if he has no idea of your exercise regimen.
5) Low-fat AND low-calorie???!!!! Make the quiet but firm decision to not follow your doc's nutritional advice.
I'm real glad you piped up on this Alan. Doctors are not nutritionists and I like to hear your side...
[devil's advocate]
However, in spite of your "worrying over nothing" line, even though his numbers are not far outside the healthy range, can we/we can say that it is outside and that the limits they impose (for lack of a better word) are the extremes already?
I'm real glad you piped up on this Alan. Doctors are not nutritionists and I like to hear your side...
[devil's advocate]
However, in spite of your "worrying over nothing" line, even though his numbers are not far outside the healthy range, can we/we can say that it is outside and that the limits they impose (for lack of a better word) are the extremes already?
[/devil's advocate]
In the beginning, the magnitude of risk for heart disease can't be determined by cholesterol levels alone. It depends upon whether they are a part of a host of other out-of-range risk factors.
But to look at the chol situation specifically,
-- His total cholesterol of 180 is under 200 (the supposed threshold of borderline high, 240 being the lower threshold of high).
-- His LDL of 130 is at the low threshold of borderline high (130-150 = borderline high). A more sophisticated test could determine whether the LDL subtypes would even indicate concern in the 1st place.
-- His tri's at 47 = low (lower threshold of concern starts at 150).
-- His tri:HDL ratio is under 5 (& certainly under 2) which indicates the possibility of a favorable LDL subtype breakdown.
And finally...
...1500 cals, low-fat???!!!! Unless Bill is a sedentary 140 lb woman, that ain't gonna cut it.
-- His total cholesterol of 180 is under 200 (the supposed threshold of borderline high, 240 bring the lower threshold of high).
-- His LDL of 130 is at the low threshold of borderline high (130-150 = borderline high). A more sophisticated test could determine whether the LDL subtypes would even indicate concern in the 1st place.
-- His tri's at 47 = low (lower threshold of concern starts at 150).
-- His tri:HDL ratio is under 5 (& certainly under 2) which indicates the possibility of a favorable LDL subtype breakdown.
Great, thanks! Now I have something to work off of when I get my bloodwork done again.
One more thing -- Bill, be ready for your doc's ego to potentially lash out at you in a fit of violence if you question his recommendations. Realize it's nothing personal.
Great, thanks! Now I have something to work off of when I get my bloodwork done again.
No probs man. I just don't buy much of that high cholesterol alarmist shit. If someone's lipid & glucose numbers steadily worsen over time -- and if this can be correlated with a decrease in physical activity and/or an increase in bad habits (eating & other), then fine, be concerned. But, realize the variables at hand can be manipulated to reverse all of that.
On the other hand, if someone's LDL's are slightly out of range, his diet is great, he's physically active, his bodycomp/bodyweight, and blood pressure is in check, no need to grope for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.
What's with the 1950's mentality that fats are evil? Did he even recommend eating unsaturated fats? Or did he just throw out "low fat" at you in general? His recommendations are not sound and they certainly don't tie in with your goals. I don't think he even stopped to consider how this would affect other areas of your life...like lifting.
Sadly, you hear these sorts of recommendations quite frequently. I have been working with physicians, nurses, etc to help them understand more the sort of diet we should be recommending and when. There are many things to consider about a patient before making a blanket "low calorie, low fat" recommendation. On top of that, the evidence that dietary cholesterol plays a significant role in serum cholesterol just doesn't seem to exist. Type of fat intake, yes...and the process is often compounded with oxidative stress, inflammation, etc...
If I were this patient, I would stick with Mr. Aragon's thoughts...
Newman
__________________
"Branch chainz, bro. Leucine in the sky with diamonds." - Alan Aragon
Thanks much, everyone. That pretty much confirms exactly what I thought.
Does anyone know of a medical study I can show to my doc that has some more up-to-date info?
__________________ The trick is in what one emphasizes. We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same. -- Carlos Castaneda
Can anyone point me to some more recent research that might suggest a better plan for lowering LDL and raising HDL? The only thing I found so far is an article on T-Nation that's based mainly on some Russian research from 10-12 years ago.
Thanks much!
There are a number of supplements that can aid in lowering LDL, such as. EFA(such as fishoil supp),Chromium,Niacin,B6,C, and of course Fiber(im not sure how fiber helps but iv read many of times it does).
otherwise there is not much els to say. As the other people said it all very well.
Thanks much, everyone. That pretty much confirms exactly what I thought.
Does anyone know of a medical study I can show to my doc that has some more up-to-date info?
I hate to tell you this Bill, but you could probably show your doc a battery of data, and he'd ask you what makes you think you can interpret it and apply it? If he's open-minded and willing to set his ego aside for a sec, then maybe you'll make headway. But ultimately, you'll have to make the decision yourself.
Here's a very recent study - 2 types of Mediterranean diets compared with a conventional low-fat diet. The higher fat Mediterranean diet, in either the high nut or high olive oil incarnation, whooped the low-fat diet for reducing biomarkers of cardiovascular risk. This should be common knowledge by now, but at least you have a nice piece of full text to kill time with:
Adam Campbell's book has an extended discussion of diet (obviously) and saturated fats. Of course not out quite yet.
I hear Alan Aragon has a book out that discusses fats indepth for an entire chapter & has been out since Feb 1st .
Adam's a cool guy, I just started communicating with him about something I'm not sure I can discuss publicly yet. Ha, I didn't even know he was working on a book.
to second Alan the advice from your physician is horrible at the same time there are some physicians who are varibale knowledge regarding nutirion
don't fall into the common trap of thinking just becasue someone is a nutritionist they have a clue - some very intelligent some clueless
objective scientific data should be derived from primary research whether it be a physician, dietian, bb guru whatever they should be familiar with the basics and be aware of primary scientific data available - they should be able to prove their statements
with this day and age the info is out and bascially available to almost everyone
need sources of reliable info i am sure alan, myself and other board members can refer you to valuable info sources
yeah one more thing Alan's book is Supertraining of nutrition - very practical as well as scientific based
I assume that you already know or are doing the oatmeal thing.
Plant stanols are now being added to Minute Maid heartwise OJ and Benechol spread to lower LDL. Supposedly you can also buy plant stanols in pill form.
Bill, no doubt you know way more about proper nutrition than your doctor. FWIW, my HDL tends to run in the low 40's as well. I haven't had it checked in a little over one year, but since that time the only adjustments I have made are taking fish oil capsules (even though I already eat a lot of fatty fish) and lately trying to eat some additional nuts, seeds, avocadoes, and olive oil. I don't formally track my macro breakdowns, but I felt like I might have been coming in low on the fats.
Cholesterol and my doctor's advice
in compliance. 
.
Linear Mode
