Is whey any useful for pre-bed?

[El tío Saín]

Hi guys.

I´m cutting right now and I´m short of money at the moment, but I have a few kg of whey. I usually take a MPI plus muy fish oils pre-bed (I can´t stand a solid meal before bed, last one is my dinner, with fish and vegetables), but I don´t want to buy more, so I was thinking of using whey + fish oils pre bed.

Would it be a decent substitution? Would I add milk to the mix (so I´d be adding some carbs, which I´m limiting at first)? or would I just skip that pre bed shake, considering that I make 5 solid meals throughout the day and last one being fish would be 1,5-2 hours before bed?

Thanks!

[Lost Dog]

Skip the bedtime snack. That last meal will be fine for the night.

[Frank.S]

I would eat before bed.. I usually eat something every 2 hours (except for sleeping. Then its nothing, unless I wake up in the middle of the night). I would make sure to have some protien, whey is better then nothing, casein will be better.

The other macros probally dont matter that much, there is some research out there saying that carbs will limit the growth hormone release in the first 2 hours of sleeping.. But who knows about that. Alan Aragon??

[Alan Aragon]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

I would eat before bed.. I usually eat something every 2 hours (except for sleeping. Then its nothing, unless I wake up in the middle of the night). I would make sure to have some protien, whey is better then nothing, casein will be better.

The other macros probally dont matter that much, there is some research out there saying that carbs will limit the growth hormone release in the first 2 hours of sleeping.. But who knows about that. Alan Aragon??

To put things into perspective, I've read research showing a GH hike if you wake yourself up in the middle of the night and force yourself to stay awake for 2 hours before going back to sleep. GH elevation? Yes. Optimal for recovery & growth? No. Muscle protein synthesis and/or the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown trumps transient nutrient-mediated GH elevations any day. Therefore, have your prot + carbs prebed if they fit into your daily macro targets.

As per the OP's question, It really all depends whether or not this final protein hit of the day fits into your total protein gram target for the day. Specific source of protein prebed is really micro-nitpicking if you have the protein with a fat source. Yes casein is awesome pre-bed, and it's even better in combination with whey. Animal flesh is just as effective, but why would the supp companies tell you that? If you're finishing a whole food mixed meal 1.5-2 hrs pre bed, stacking another meal on top of that would only be warranted if for some reason you're 1) coming up short on protein prior to that, or 2) looking to add more protein, or 3) looking for some dessert, and want to default it to a protein source.

[Cynic]

To add-on to what others have said, it'll probably be a bit more satiating if you take your casein as cottage cheese, rather than as a drink.

Perhaps a cup of CC, full fat if you please, some fructose based carbs, etc.

[Frank.S]

Thanks for that alan, pretty interesting stuff.. Mostly, I feel sorry for the people who had to wake-up mid sleep and keep awake! haha.

I love cottage cheese and almonds before bed.. Firstly, it tastes good and takes no time to make. Lots of protien and healthy fats.. seems good enough for me.

[Alan Aragon]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Thanks for that alan, pretty interesting stuff.. Mostly, I feel sorry for the people who had to wake-up mid sleep and keep awake! haha.

I guess it could be worse, they DO need to hire armpit sniffers to test deodorants :p

[coach hale]

as Alan suggested depends on where it fits in calorie and prot budget

there are many combinations you could use

there is no one best way to do it

getting cut is a multi-factorial process

thanks
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com

[Frank.S]

Originally Posted by coach hale

as Alan suggested depends on where it fits in calorie and prot budget

there are many combinations you could use

there is no one best way to do it

getting cut is a multi-factorial process

thanks
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com

Pffft, what do you know about cutting...







Holy shit you are ripped.

[LunchboxMan]

Originally Posted by Alan Aragon

To put things into perspective, I've read research showing a GH hike if you wake yourself up in the middle of the night and force yourself to stay awake for 2 hours before going back to sleep. GH elevation? Yes. Optimal for recovery & growth? No. Muscle protein synthesis and/or the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown trumps transient nutrient-mediated GH elevations any day. Therefore, have your prot + carbs prebed if they fit into your daily macro targets.

As per the OP's question, It really all depends whether or not this final protein hit of the day fits into your total protein gram target for the day. Specific source of protein prebed is really micro-nitpicking if you have the protein with a fat source. Yes casein is awesome pre-bed, and it's even better in combination with whey. Animal flesh is just as effective, but why would the supp companies tell you that? If you're finishing a whole food mixed meal 1.5-2 hrs pre bed, stacking another meal on top of that would only be warranted if for some reason you're 1) coming up short on protein prior to that, or 2) looking to add more protein, or 3) looking for some dessert, and want to default it to a protein source.

I've been wondering about this issue myself lately. Say you eat your last meal containing meat/casein ~2hrs before bed and you're within your target cals (about) and protein. if you don't have your right-before-bed casein shake, just how great of an impact will the resulting two extra hours of catabolism during the night have? i realize in the grand scheme of things, prob not much, but still curious about the details thanks!

[Alan Aragon]

Originally Posted by LunchboxMan

I've been wondering about this issue myself lately. Say you eat your last meal containing meat/casein ~2hrs before bed and you're within your target cals (about) and protein. if you don't have your right-before-bed casein shake, just how great of an impact will the resulting two extra hours of catabolism during the night have? i realize in the grand scheme of things, prob not much, but still curious about the details thanks!

You're right about "not much". Realize that 30g casein keeps blood aminos elevated above baseline for a minimum of 7 hours. Even if it didn't, your liver would be able to provide the blood with glucose once your elevated blood glucose level (as a result of carb intake) returns to baseline. This is granted you're not chronically undercarbed or neglecting your poor liver glycogen depots

[El tío Saín]

Thank you guys

As per the OP's question, It really all depends whether or not this final protein hit of the day fits into your total protein gram target for the day. Specific source of protein prebed is really micro-nitpicking if you have the protein with a fat source. Yes casein is awesome pre-bed, and it's even better in combination with whey. Animal flesh is just as effective, but why would the supp companies tell you that? If you're finishing a whole food mixed meal 1.5-2 hrs pre bed, stacking another meal on top of that would only be warranted if for some reason you're 1) coming up short on protein prior to that, or 2) looking to add more protein, or 3) looking for some dessert, and want to default it to a protein source.

Hi Alan. It´s really for reasons 1 and 2. I´m not really hungry at that time and in fact it´s a pain for me to take that shake, which also makes me wake up in the middle of the night if I put too much water on it.

The problem is that, on the one hand, my job doesn´t allow me to sit and have a quiet, solid meal until midday (so my main source of protein until that time are shakes); on the other (hand) I´m also using shakes pre and post workout, so I don´t want to abuse.

One shake with milk first in the morning (no time to chew), another one added to a bread & cofee breakfast at the office and two more pre and post workout. That makes a minimum of 4 shakes a day, too much for the solid meal proponent that I´ve always been :p

[laxcdn]

Here is a question. How long does it take to digest food? If you eat a couple hours before you go to sleep, it your belly actually empty or is there still food in there and you are just needing more? If all the food is gone then I can see you loosing muscle, but not enough to make a difference in anything.

[karky]

Originally Posted by Alan Aragon

I guess it could be worse, they DO need to hire armpit sniffers to test deodorants :p

euw.. that falls under the "things we havent thought about because we just dont want to think about them" category..

[El tío Saín]

Originally Posted by laxcdn

Here is a question. How long does it take to digest food? If you eat a couple hours before you go to sleep, it your belly actually empty or is there still food in there and you are just needing more? If all the food is gone then I can see you loosing muscle, but not enough to make a difference in anything.

Good point. I´m sure that by the time I go to bed my dinner is not fully digested. It´s usually a light solid meal (200g of boiled fish, some vegetables and added EFA´s), but it would take longer to digest than 1,5-2 hours. But the question is if that´s enough to keep me feeded through the night.

Anyway, as I said before, by that time I usually don´t feel hungry at all (even when dieting).

[(Silent)]

In theory its possible that heavy digestion while sleeping could interfere with the body's ability to enter REM sleep thus reduce the body's ability to repair. Which in term could hinder (to one degree or another) ones goal of hypertrophy.