Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
What do you use?? I have never tried water, only milk, and it tastes so good I can't imagine water being any better. How many of you take your Pre WO drink to the gym and drink it every 15 min or so? If so, I assume you use water?
You should use water, as it will limit the amount of fat you are taking in PWO. You don't want to take in fat immediately PWO, only carbs and protein. If you use milk, use skim milk. Water won't taste as good, though.
__________________ If your dog is fat, you aren't getting enough exercise. -Unknown
Craig Ballantyne just drinks low fat chocolate mild AS his pwo drink. Ogedei, too. I do when I forget to pack my normal drink. It's tasty, too.
I don't see anything wrong with using milk in a PWO drink, either. It would not be convenient for me, since the powder sits in my gym bag all day, waiting for the water.
I use milk right now, but am switching to a protein/malto mix once my milk is gone, since it has a better ratio. Plus the only kind they have around here is kind of high in fat.
__________________ If your dog is fat, you aren't getting enough exercise. -Unknown
I use fat free skim milk, so no fat in my drink. Does anyone take their drink to the gym and sip on it throughout your workout? Does the whey start to seperate from the water after a while, causing you to have to re-shake it everytime or does it stay nice and smooth? I never tried it.
I use fat free skim milk, so no fat in my drink. Does anyone take their drink to the gym and sip on it throughout your workout? Does the whey start to seperate from the water after a while, causing you to have to re-shake it everytime or does it stay nice and smooth? I never tried it.
I drink mine throughout the workout. I don't know if it would separate or not, since I always shake it before sipping it. I'm not sure why I do that...
I used to keep a can of low fat evaporated milk in my car and drink it right after working out (obviously kept it in the fridge before putting in the car so it was cold when I drank it). I don't know if that was the best PWO drink or not but it sure was good.
Use milk if:
-- you can digest it
-- you're cool with the inconvenience factor
Use water if:
-- you can't digest milk
-- you're a convenience freak
Note: those who can digest milk are in luck, because a casein + whey combo is ahead of straight whey in terms of research evidence.
Another note: dex or dex/malto as your sole postW carb source isn't necessary for optimal recovery. For one thing, there's no micronutrition there, and the objective of using the quickest possible carbs only applies to those who plan on skipping their pre and/or during-workout nutrition. Realize that all the research showing the benefit of high-GI carbs postworkout was done after an overnight fast, in the ABSENCE of a preworkout meal. If you're already absorbing substrates during training as a result of proper pre-fueling, & they're already present in circulation, there's literally no need to trip over getting in the quickest carbs you can.
Condensed milk + baker's bittersweet chocolate (or a bag of dark chocolate chips) + walnuts + a touch of vanilla or almond extract, stir it up in a pan over low heat. Pour it into a flat baking dish. Let it cool, put it in the fridge. Cut it up once hardened. That's some heavenly fudge worthy of packing.
so what are you using for PWO if you had proper preWO meal in case of milk being unavailable (which i try to use most of the time)? Would you include some complex carbs into the mix, ie whey+grinded oats+sugars or are simple sugars even necessary?
Another note: dex or dex/malto as your sole postW carb source isn't necessary for optimal recovery. For one thing, there's no micronutrition there, and the objective of using the quickest possible carbs only applies to those who plan on skipping their pre and/or during-workout nutrition. Realize that all the research showing the benefit of high-GI carbs postworkout was done after an overnight fast, in the ABSENCE of a preworkout meal. If you're already absorbing substrates during training as a result of proper pre-fueling, & they're already present in circulation, there's literally no need to trip over getting in the quickest carbs you can.
Alan, "If you're already absorbing substrates during training as a result of proper pre-fueling, & they're already present in circulation" would the malto/dex be detrimental in anyway (leading to fat storage, etc.?)?
__________________
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
so what are you using for PWO if you had proper preWO meal in case of milk being unavailable (which i try to use most of the time)? Would you include some complex carbs into the mix, ie whey+grinded oats+sugars or are simple sugars even necessary?
Thanks in advance!
What I use is simply a case study in personal taste & individual response, so take it as such. I use Sustain + unflavored WPI, old fashioned oats, frozen strawberries, milk, unsweetened cocoa.
Refined simple sugars are not necessary. However, in moderation (tough to define), they're not detrimental either. They simply are devoid micronutrition, so having a tremendous amount of them lessens the nutrient density of the diet. I personally don't like to see folks get more than half of their workout carbs from dex, malto, etc. I used to throw dex into my shakes for sweetening until I started using Sustain which is plenty sweet enough.
Alan, "If you're already absorbing substrates during training as a result of proper pre-fueling, & they're already present in circulation" would the malto/dex be detrimental in anyway (leading to fat storage, etc.?)?
No, however, it's just a low-grade carb source in terms of phytonutrition. Actually, it's a no-grade carb source when it comes to micronutrient density. Is it useful for recovery & replenishment of glycogen? Yes, but so are other whole food sources that are not completely empty calories. As per my previous post, keep it minimal to moderate, & you'll be fine.
Whether it's dextrose or other doesn't have any impact on fat storage. There's nothing special about [insert various saccharides of your choice] that makes it more lipogenic than another. This has been demonstrated time & again under controlled conditions. The only valid argument against adding dextrose to your diet is that it contains zero micronutrition. So then the question becomes, is dex okay in moderate amounts? The answer is yes, and the limits you set will depend solely on your personal philisophy. If you use no dextrose at all, and switch it out for some other carb source, it won't make or break your bodycomp. One slight advantage dextrose has over oats is in the case of a during-workout shake, some people can't stomach oats, whereas almost no one I know gets affected by dex. But if you're like me, you can stomach oats at any point.
A word about protein powder + sugar surrounding training, it mainly serves a function of convenience. Do you really think the guy having meat + potatoes on both sides of workout is destined to have a worse physique than the all-engineered-refined-food guy? Nope.
Cuurently, 15 minutes Pre Workout I consume about 35g whey and 45g malto/dex. 15 minutes Post Workout I consume about 50g whey and 90g malto/dex. I don't need convenience Post Workout as much as I do Pre Workout, so for my Post Workout meal, would you suggest just the whey+casein in a drink and then what carb source?
thanks for the insight Alana - good info! I've been playing around with various pre/post WO combos lately but haven't really ever included oats in PostWO so i'll definitely give that a shot next and see what happens. Thanks for the comments again.
Condensed milk + baker's bittersweet chocolate (or a bag of dark chocolate chips) + walnuts + a touch of vanilla or almond extract, stir it up in a pan over low heat. Pour it into a flat baking dish. Let it cool, put it in the fridge. Cut it up once hardened. That's some heavenly fudge worthy of packing.
Stop it. I can't take it. Sounds too good. Although, I prefer vanilla bean to vanilla extract. No real micronutients in the extract...
But Im a little confused. If a shake like yours enough to spike insulin? You hear of bodybuilders using straight insulin PWO to get that spike, ive always thought that we were just trying to mimick this 'naturally'? Or is this not the case?
But Im a little confused. If a shake like yours enough to spike insulin? You hear of bodybuilders using straight insulin PWO to get that spike, ive always thought that we were just trying to mimick this 'naturally'? Or is this not the case?
Bodybuilders - especially the bulk of the self-proclaimed "hardcore" population - are not stereotypified for their talents in the department of logical reasoning. Upon closer examination of the research behind the high-GI recommendation (a la the dex-malto fanatics @ abc & elsewhere), all trials were done after an overnight fast, & without a preworkout meal. Previous meal overlap changes the whole game & eliminates the need for the insulin spike. Furthermore, if you constructed your preW meal & timed things right, your insulin wouldn't actually get "spiked" but either maintained or slightly elevated for anabolic/anticatabolic purposes. It's a handoff effect you wanna go for, not necessarily a spike for the sake of compensating for absent preW nutrition. This is one of those points where you have to open your mind. I've definitely been there.
Pretty good until this part towards the bottom of page 2:
Quote:
Recent research has documented that muscle protein synthesis can be exacerbated by protein or amino acid intake immediately before and after resistance exercise (3, 4).
1st of all, "exacerbated" is an odd word to use since it has negative connotations, most folks will think of exacerbating in the context of worsening. That can be misleading. I think he could have chosen a range of other terms along the lines of "increased" or "enhanced" or "elevated", you get the picture.
Otherwise, not bad, stuff some of us have known for some time: proper nutrient timing is all about making sure CHO & AA are available to tissues during (via either preW or duringW meal) & post training.
Water or Milk with Pre/Post WO Shake
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