Am I overdoing it?

[rookie]

I am not a professional. Well in the fitness or athletic world anyway. But I am taking a good deal of supplements. Each of which on its own merit. However I feel that I may be overdoing it. So I woud like your opinion. I also have a few new ones due to my recent bouts with sinus infections and colds.
I am 36 years old currently doing NROL. I take the following:

1.MultiVitamin (night)
2.Fish oil - Obvious health reasons(morning and night)
3.Creatine - Health and fitness benefits(PWO)
4.Greens - Health benefits(morning snack shake)

5.ZMA - sleep and immune system support(night)
6.Vitamin C - immune system(morning)
7.Vitamin E - Immune sytstem(morning)
8.Glutamine - Immune system and recovery(morning)

9;Glucosamine - Joint support.(morning) I have been diagnosed with arthritis in my wrists. Have stopped taking it for a bit to see if I notice a difference.

10.BCAA's - For added protein support PWO(PWO)

10! Am I wasting my money on some of these?

[Lisa~]

There is nothing really edgy in that list. Each supplement serves a purpose for you. I don't think you're overdoing it. ZMA doesn't work for a lot of people, but if it helps you, then ok. Glucosamine has been helpful to most everyone who takes it. The pwo stuff is good. The rest is basic health.

You list is not much different from my own. Besides pwo, I take:

Glucosamine/chondroitin
Greens+
Multi-vitamin
Calcium
Garlic
Fish oil

I'm not currently taking C, E, or glutamine, but I'm also not dealing with infections like you are. ZMA never did anything for me.

I think your list of supplements is pretty good.

[Lost Dog]

I don't think you're wasting money on any of those. Glutamine is the only one that I'd normally even question, but most people take it without knowing what it'll do for them. You've got a good reason, it seems.

I take fish oil, C, E, ZMA, and creatine.

Lisa, doesn't the garlic make you reek? Even when I bought oderless garlic, I got negative feedback. Does your husband take it too?

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

Lisa, doesn't the garlic make you reek? Even when I bought oderless garlic, I got negative feedback. Does your husband take it too?

LOL Not that I'm aware of. Nobody's complained and I can't smell it. :p

My husband doesn't take garlic.

I really, really didn't like the Kyolic brand that's supposed to be odorless. I could taste it and smell it. I take Kwai brand.

I started taking it because I was diagnosed with essential high blood pressure. I tried really hard to lower my bp with diet and supplements alone before I was willing to take a medication. The first thing I tried was garlic and my bp went down by 10 points. That was pretty amazing to me, so I keep a garlic supp in my diet all the time. It has other good qualities too. I think garlic supports the immunne system too, but I'm not sure if a pill will work for that purpose. It might have to be real garlic cloves.

[Lost Dog]

Good to know. But at this point, I'm not risking it. Luckily, my BP is fine.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Lost Dog

Good to know. But at this point, I'm not risking it. Luckily, my BP is fine.

Yeah, better leave that risky garlic consumption alone. :p

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

Yeah, better leave that risky garlic consumption alone. :p

Someday, I might meet a chick. When she runs, I want to know she was fleeing me and not the stench.

[BjsAust]

Nothing looks wasted there. I dont use all of them, but most. It does seem like a lot at times, but when you work through them theres a valid reason for each one, and none of them are too pricey (I think, not sure about glutamine and BCAAs which I dont take).

[andrew_plamondon]

Glucosamine was shown to be useless. I dunno about ZMA since I've seen conflicting opinions. The rest is fine though. Probably not necessary but not useless.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by andrew_plamondon

Glucosamine was shown to be useless. I dunno about ZMA since I've seen conflicting opinions. The rest is fine though. Probably not necessary but not useless.

Glucosamine? Really? I thought this was a fairly well respected supplement for improved joint health. I could do a commercial for glucosamine. I know it helped me. Surely it wasn't all placebo effect.

[BjsAust]

With all the knee problems/injuries I've had, I'm hoping glucosamine will be the trick to keeping going years longer than I otherwise would.

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by BjsAust

With all the knee problems/injuries I've had, I'm hoping glucosamine will be the trick to keeping going years longer than I otherwise would.

I'm sure Rookie is shortening it, but it's usually glucosamine and chondroitin and some makers add a third component (I can't remember what).

[JoshDunn]

Careful of vitamin E as its fat soluable (ie you store this vitamin as with A,D,K)and most people don't need to supplement with this. If you start getting excessive headaches and fatigue then cut this for a bit.

Does anyone know if you need both glucosamine and fish oil? I thought fish oil had the same properties but i haven't investigated further.

[Lost Dog]

I take the vitamin E because of what I'd read in Nutrient Timing. Positive workout recovery effects when E and C were taken with workout nutrition.

[shugga]

Originally Posted by Cynic

I'm sure Rookie is shortening it, but it's usually glucosamine and chondroitin and some makers add a third component (I can't remember what).

I've just started taking a pill that contains glucosamine, condroitin, and MSM for some knee problems. I've only been on it a week, but so far it seems to have helped. I played basketball Monday night without the usual pain afterward. However, I have heard that it takes a couple of months to really notice the effects. I bought the pills at Vitamin World. $10 for 200 pills seemed like it was too good of a deal to pass up. Right now I am only taking 1 per day, but in about another week I will go up to 2 per day.

[Canadian_Bacon]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

Glucosamine? Really? I thought this was a fairly well respected supplement for improved joint health. I could do a commercial for glucosamine. I know it helped me. Surely it wasn't all placebo effect.

For people with existing arthitis, or to a lesser degree any joint pain, it seems to have some effect (search pubmed to see about 1 million reviews on it) but the effects dont appear to be life shattering.

I don't think it has any PROVEN benefit for people w/o any existing condition which it seems like a lot of ppl are using it for now adays.

[Ian Kay]

Shugga: I'm guessing that if you bought the Gl-Ch-MSM complex from VW for $10, you bought the bargain-bin "Vitamin Depot" label that came and went. Two things on this: the Glucosamine is Gl HCl, not Gl Sulfate. There is some debate as to whether or not this is significant. Some say that the failed trials on Gl-Ch are moot because the HCl form that is used is inferior to the Gl Sulfate (and vice versa). Don't sweat it too much, though, seeing as how there still is nothing to really indicate one way or the other. Number two: I have no idea about the quality of the "Vitamin Depot" brand. One thing I hate about the bargain bins at VW is that they sell off smaller companies' products (companies that they've bought out) but that don't necessarily have the same standards of quality. So while things with the Vitamin World label have largely been approved by Consumer Reports, the ones in the bargain bin have NOT.

A final note on that: you should be taking 2 tablets every day (of that particular brand), to reach the 1500mg/1200mg (Gl/Ch) that seems to be the effective amounts. I think that by taking only one, you are not going to see marked results.

There was a NYTimes article earlier this year on a major, long-term study that basically said Gl-Ch did not yield significant results (see below). Of course, like Lisa, there have been many customers that swear by it, and many clinical trials that have supported its use.

The MSM part of it is essentially a painkiller. I'd recommend reading up on it though (I'm not a link-master, like Lisa ) as I've read a few warnings against consistent use (apparently like most painkillers!)

As far as Gl-Ch vs. Fish Oil, I think there's no reason not to take both (barring the $$$ factor). Supposedly the Gl-Ch limits joint-material breakdown, while fish oil decreases joint inflammation. Fish oil, of course, also has a ton of other benefits.

[Ian Kay]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/23/he...88&partner=rss

"Supplements Fail to Stop Arthritis Pain, Study Says

Two widely used nutritional supplements for arthritis pain do not effectively soothe patients' aching arthritic knees, a large federal study has found.

The study of the two drugs, glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate, was published today in The New England Journal of Medicine. The study was meant to provide a definitive answer to a question that has baffled doctors and patients alike: do these supplements work?

Americans spent an estimated $734 million on glucosamine and chondroitin in 2004, according to The Nutrition Business Journal, making them among the most widely used dietary supplements in the nation. The two, which are produced by numerous companies, are often sold in combination as a treatment for arthritis.

In the 24-week study, 1,583 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee were randomly assigned to one of five groups. Some patients took glucosamine, some took chondroitin and some took both. Others, serving as comparison subjects, took a placebo or celecoxib, sold as Celebrex, a prescription drug that is approved for
osteoarthritis.

No effect was found for glucosamine, chondroitin or a combination of the two. But the study found that the patients who took celecoxib had a statistically significant improvement in their symptoms. Although the new study found no overall effect for the supplements, the authors and some other medical researchers said that an analysis of a subgroup of patients provided hope — although not definitive evidence —
that the supplements taken together might help some people with more severe pain.

"Patients who had more pain did seem to be helped by the combination," said Dr. Daniel O. Clegg, a researcher at the University of Utah School of Medicine who was the lead author of the study. But Dr. Clegg hastened to add that this observation would have to be confirmed in later studies.

Dr. Marc C. Hochberg, the head of the division of rheumatology and clinical immunology at the University of Maryland, said it was also possible that another type of glucosamine might be effective. The study used glucosamine hydrochloride because it was the only type that could be manufactured at the time in a sufficiently pure form. In Europe, where glucosamine and chondroitin are sold as drugs, glucosamine comes in the form of glucosamine sulfate, Dr. Hochberg said, and some industry-supported studies have indicated that this form helps.

But others said there was no reason to expect that glucosamine sulfate would be any different from glucosamine hydrochloride. They said they viewed the study's finding that the supplements had no benefit as persuasive.

"It's a null trial," said Dr. David Felson, a rheumatologist at Boston University. "It doesn't work any better than placebo."

Because the supplements are so popular, the results of the trial had been eagerly awaited. "We've been talking about the importance of this study for the last two or three years," said Dr. John Klippel, president and chief executive of the Arthritis Foundation.

"When people have been asking about glucosamine and chondroitin, we tell them this is the most important study ever done," Dr. Klippel said. "It has a very large number of patients and it is scientifically rigorous."

Previous studies had methodological flaws, and their results were contradictory. A handful of publicly financed trials showed no effect, Dr. Felson and others said. Other studies, financed by supplement makers, "were impressively positive," Dr. Felson said.

Dr. Clegg said the new study, financed by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine and the National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases, arose after an expert panel in 1998 concluded that "there is a real and urgent public health need to test these agents in a rigorous way."

Glucosamine and chondroitin are substances found naturally in joints, leading some to suggest that they might be helpful for arthritis patients. Glucosamine is a modified sugar that is thought to play a role in