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OK I continualy say this about protein and the mass hysteria in the US with more and more protein. Theres plenty of articles out there and research and yet I continualy see emails from top coaches again misquoting the required intake for muscle building being per POUND of bodyweight and not per KG. I cant locate my original source research but am going to head to the Sports Science library imminently to dig these out.
In the meantime:
The Protein Puzzle: The all-pervading folklore in strength sports is that you need to pack in the protein. Up to 4g of protein per kg of body weight per day (contrast this with the standard Recommended Daily Allowance of 0.8g/kg) has been recommended - most notably by Eastern bloc coaches and nutritionists. There is evidence that athletes involved in resistance training have a heightened protein requirement. But 4g/kg seems to be way over the top.
I've been taught:
general population .8-1g/kg
athletes
maintaining (strength training) 1.2-1.4g/kg
increasing LMM 1.6-1.7g/kg
endurance 1.2-1.4g/kg
intermittent, high intensity training 1.4-1.7g/kg
maximum 2-2.8g/kg
children (infants and growing children) 2-4g/kg
For those over a BMI of 30 (obese) we don't use there actual bodyweight but adjust it down.
Peter Lemon, a researcher based at Kent State University, Ohio, has been investigating athletes' protein needs for a number of years. He concludes that strength training athletes need to consume more protein than the RDA, recommending levels of 1.5-2.0g/kg. He emphasises that although increasing protein intakes above the RDA (in tandem with resistance exercise) may enhance muscle gain, this increase is not a continuing linear relationship - the effect appears to plateau out at relatively modest increases
This was borne out by a recent study which compared a group of experienced strength-trained athletes with a group of sedentary controls. Both groups were tested at three protein intake levels - low, moderate and high (0.86, 1.4 and 2.4 g/kg body weight respectively). The protein intake required to maintain body protein levels was 1.4g/kg for strength athletes and 0.69 for sedentary subjects. An increase in protein intake from low to moderate increased the rate of protein synthesis in strength athletes, but increasing to the high level did not have any further effect. ('Evaluation of protein requirements for strength trained athletes', Tarnopolsky et al, J App Physiol, Vol 73, pp1986-95)
so...according to your research 1g per lbs would be the most a person would need. thanks for finally acknowledging the rest of the board.
Hey JB,
I read the top article, where the student walks in and asks about protein intake. It all sounds very good, but I have heard things about a limit to protein absorption. If this is the case, at what intake level would it occur? According to some trainers I know (not that their certifications give their words creedence), Americans get more protein than their body can use. Is it possible for protein to get wasted by the body;excreted? Thanks.
All the protein you eat is digested. If it wasn't, your toilet bowl would look like it does a day after eating corn - but you'd see chicken breasts instead of kernels. As far as absorption, about 90-95% of all the food we eat is absorbed. So any talk of digestion/absorption being limited is not accurate. Nearly all of it is digested and absorbed.
Utilization is another thing. To give a definition, the amount of protein utilized is the amount used for protein-energy needs. Any additional is either converted to glucose, with the nitrogen groups (unique to proteins) being converted to urea, and excreted via the urine. And, unfortunately, utilization is based on a ton of factors so I can't give an exact number.
To get to your question:
Yes, if you eat more protein than you utilize, then technically, it will be "wasted" in one sense. However, you're thinking of it all wrong. It's only "wasted" for producing muscle growth.
Any additional protein that's not used for muscle growth (i.e. "wasted" in your useage) can be converted to carbohydrate - so it's not 100% wasted - it's used for energy. Sure, carbs are cheaper - but to take a protein to a carb is very calorie-expensive, thus ramping up metabolic rate. This is a good thing and means that even if you "overeat" protein, you'll get a metabolism boost.
Secondly, as I said in the post above - additional protein (even above utilization needs) can provide a ton of benefits including those discussed in the first article.
In the end, you've gotta stop thinking of protein as "something I need to get the bare minimum of without going into deficiency" OR "something that I have to take enough of to build muscle - and no more." You need to start thinking of as "the nutrient that stimulates the metabolism, increases rate of turnover and adaptation, and can displace some dietary carbs and fats that might lead to fat gain."
If you were to overeat any nutritient, it should be protein (assuming you've got fully functional kidneys).
You need to start thinking of as "the nutrient that stimulates the metabolism, increases rate of turnover and adaptation, and can displace some dietary carbs and fats that might lead to fat gain."
was with you until that point, not agreeing but seeing the basis of your argument, but then that thro away comment then makes a farce of the argument as overconsumption is overconsumption regardless of macro source.
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BFG
"The time for talking has passed, actions are speaking louder than words."
so...according to your research 1g per lbs would be the most a person would need. thanks for finally acknowledging the rest of the board.
aha and how many of these professional athletes on here or many other boards that consume that as a mandatory amount have day jobs where the gym makes up a very small percentage of their overal day. With all due respect you may feel like you are working out like a pro but it doesnt mean you are actualy living and training as one tho
__________________
BFG
"The time for talking has passed, actions are speaking louder than words."
was with you until that point, not agreeing but seeing the basis of your argument, but then that thro away comment then makes a farce of the argument as overconsumption is overconsumption regardless of macro source.
So you are saying the process that takes amino acids and converts them to triglycerides is not more metabolically demanding than converting glucose or fatty acids to triglycerides? If the statement is taken in context it isn't a farce at all. Gluconeogenesis does require ATP if I'm not mistaken. What I got out his statement was that this may cause some extra calories that might have been otherwise stored as fat to be used up in metabolic processes that wouldn't have been needed if the calorie consumption had come from carbohydrates or fats.
at the end of the day I agree with John that its better to have a higher protein content than a shite source of nutrition. I just dont agree that protein is the only way to achieve this good nutrition and feel that current mode berates carbs to a degree that many are misinformed.
was on the back of a debate with someone who felt he could go on a cut; up his protein intake whilst still maintaining a deficit and utilise his stored body fat for building substantial lean muscle mass...... bangs head on desk!!!!!
__________________
BFG
"The time for talking has passed, actions are speaking louder than words."
aha and how many of these professional athletes on here or many other boards that consume that as a mandatory amount have day jobs where the gym makes up a very small percentage of their overal day. With all due respect you may feel like you are working out like a pro but it doesnt mean you are actualy living and training as one tho
no, I don't believe that I workout anywhere near the level of a professional athlete. but I can say with confidence that 1g per lbs would be the most I would need ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.
assuming that I fall somewhere on the spectrum...the research clearly points to "having enough is better than not enough" while "having slightly more does no harm"...it's common sense to shoot for the high end.
Assuming you're eating several meals a day and aren't huuuuuuge getting that amount of protein is not a freakish thing. 200lbs person\5 meals = 40g per meal, less if you toss in a shake around workout times.
And remember, protein intake recommendations by top coaches are not just about meeting protein needs.
From this article I concluded science has not decided on the right or wrong amount of protein, but JB has some good evidence in the form of his clients.
Protein intake for the non pro athlete
sorry
Linear Mode
