Fitday.....I'm a little confused.

Jimbo · 08-10-2006, 01:19 PM

I've been posting in fitday for abou 12 days now. I really like the way it breaks down everything for you. I feel like it gave me a better understanding of what I've been putting in my body so maybe I can get a handle on my diet. But I'm a little confused.

I am 5'10" and 175#. I'm trim but have that small layer of fat in my mid section covering my abs. I want to lose that. After that, I'll concentrate on putting on some more muscle.

My training consists of 3 full body workouts a week and I run on the off days. I do nothing but rest on Sunday. My runs vary between short 2 -3 mile runs and usually at least one 6 miler a week sometimes 2.

My confusion is about what I see in fitday. After a couple of weeks of logging my activity and eats I look at their reports and see that, if I'm reading it correctly, I should be losing weight. I have a calorie deficit every day...even on the early days of posting my eats. (I was shocked early on by the number of calories I was actually eating)

The calories burned, on any given day, exceeds the calories taken in by between 500 and 1500 calories on every day that I have tracked.

So...shouldn't I be losing weight?
So...does this mean that my metabolism is screwed up? (slow) If so...what can I do to get it back in line?

Here is my fitday logs. The first week I posted my eats...I learned that I was eating too many calories. I can also see that I need to up my protien which I am trying to do. But do I need to lower my calories by a greater deficit to see results? If so..how low should I go?

I've been posting in fitday for a couple weeks now. I really like the way it breaks down everything for you. I feel like it gave me a better understanding of what I've been putting in my body so maybe I can get a handle on my diet.

I am 5'10" and 175#. I'm trim but have that small layer of fat in my mid section covering my abs. I want to lose that. After that, I'll concentrate on putting on some more muscle.

My training consists of 3 full body workouts a week and I run on the off days. I do nothing but rest on Sunday. My runs vary between short 2 -3 mile runs and usually at least one 6 miler a week sometimes 2.

My confusion is about what I see in fitday. After a couple of weeks of logging my activity and eats I look at their reports and see that, if I'm reading it correctly, I should be losing weight.

The calories burned, on any given day, exceeds the calories taken in by between 500 and 1500 calories on every day that I have tracked.

So...does this mean that my metabolism is screwed up? (slow) If so...what can I do to get it back in line?

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/P ublicJournals.html?Owner=jchf6 230

Jimbo · 08-10-2006, 01:26 PM

PS - I have no idea what my BF% is.

And...here's a bit of confusing trivia for ya. In the past week, I've noticed my ring fitting loser on my hand. (though I've went up a couple of pounds) Is that a sure sign I'm dropping fat? Come on...humor me.

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 01:33 PM

I only use fitday to track food. I wouldn't personally use it for determing my calorie intake.

I would use the harris benedict, remember it is only an estimate. The caloric modifier is to include your activity so don't add it in seperately.

You shouldn't eat at a -1500 level 1000 to 500 should be fine.

Lastly, I doubt the ring is a really good indicator. Belt would be a better indicator. Take some waist measurements.

Also don't over use the scale. I used to fluctuate 10 lbs on any given day depending on when I measured. Set one day aside, say friday in the morning, to be your official weigh in day. Any other weigh-ins are to be ignored. Plot your trend.

Hope this helps.

ParanoidAndroid · 08-10-2006, 01:38 PM

From what I've heard,Fitday overestimates how many calories people burn. It has me at a 800 calorie deficit and I've been gaining weight. Just use it for what you eat.-http://fitday.com/webfit/publi cjournals.html?Owner=jm234&Year=2006&Month=7&Day=9

In general, I think calories burned calculators can be way off; everyone's metabolism is different

Jimbo · 08-10-2006, 01:44 PM

Thanks. You both pretty much said the same thing. I appreciate the insight. My first time to really get serious about tracking food and I THINK it will make a difference. I'm certainly a little more conscious of what I eat now.

The "harris benedict" - I'll look that up for sure.

I was all pumped thinking that maybe I was going low enough on calories. But I'm not convinced. Going lower will definitely take some discipline. I hate feeling hungry when I lay down at night!!!!

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 01:48 PM

Not sure how old you are, but it's not that huge a deal anyhow as it dosen't effect the formula that much.

I get your maintenance at around 2600 a day. So if you drop to 2100 a day and see if you lose, that would be a decent starting point.

I used a 1.375 modifier, which is moderate excercise 3-4 days per week.

That's around where I might start for you.

Jimbo · 08-10-2006, 01:49 PM

I found a calulator that uses the Harris benedict...pretty much the same bmr that fitday gave me.- 2780 I can guarantee if I eat that much every day...I'll get huge and not the good huge.

So...If...at my activity levels and size I'm SUPPOSED to be burning THAT many calories...I have to assume that my metabolic rate is slow.

bummer.

Hi jemmie reynolds
Your current BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) is 2780
Your Body currently uses or burns 2780 calories per day. In order to lose weight you must consume less than this number of calories. If you desire to lose 1 pound a week then you must consume 2280 calories per day. If you do not want to consume less food, another option is to increase your physical activity level.

Jimbo · 08-10-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogedei

Not sure how old you are, but it's not that huge a deal anyhow as it dosen't effect the formula that much.

I get your maintenance at around 2600 a day. So if you drop to 2100 a day and see if you lose, that would be a decent starting point.

I used a 1.375 modifier, which is moderate excercise 3-4 days per week.

That's around where I might start for you.

Thanks OG. I'm 45. But here's the thing. in the past 2 weeks my highest caloric intake day was just below 2000. Most days I'm hitting between 1500 and 1700. I have to admit though...I had one day that I hit 2700. (went to 2 partys that day)

But, for the most part, my intake is usually 900 or so below 2600.

I contradicted myself here...I did have that one day. Don't roast me...

I guess I'll just keep tracking and see what happens. As you said, I may be weighing myself too often and getting antsy.

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 02:03 PM

Only a quick look through your logs but most of your days look pretty low, some are like 1300 cals. I found one day at 1900, but it included cake, chips and a cheeseburger.

August 5th: Cheeseburger 300 cals, Cake 153 cals, 2041 total
August 4th: Cake 400 cals, 1900 total
August 3rd: Cheeseburger: 600 cals, 1900 total
August 2nd: Nachos, 692: Hot dog 700 cals, 2700 total
August 1st: Fastfood: Tostada 333, Cake 291, 1700 total

I don't think you can reasonably expect to lose fat when your calorie intake come from that much junk food

You could always try something like the adam's diet. Eat as much meat and veggies as you want and keep grains and fruit to about 1 serving per day.

Jimbo · 08-10-2006, 02:24 PM

Yeah...the cake. Birthday cake. It called to me several times.
The burgers were at least home cooked and the fast food...well it was the only thing on fitday that I thought came close to a home made taco salad.

I'm not arguing..I just wanted it known that that wasn't all fast food.

Your point is taken. I need to clean the diet up.

It still freaks me out a bit that a calorie is not a calorie. I mean that it matters what the calories come from. And I know that this has been preached here for ...well ....forever...but I still have a hard time getting my head around it. I've been training for a few years but I feel like, when it comes to diet...I'm a newbie.

Thanks for taking time to look at this OG.

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 02:35 PM

I would certainly look into cleaning it up. Especially when it comes to fat loss. Try eating good and clean at around the 2100 mark, lifting 2 or 3 times a week and see what happens.

Og.

Blackjack · 08-10-2006, 03:52 PM

At 5'-10", 175lbs, you're pretty lean to begin with. If you really want to get lean, your diet needs to be very strict. My personal experience was that standard dieting would get me to 11-12% then stop. I think your body wants so much to keep that amount of fat it will to some extent refuse to lose it. So you really have to get strict on the diet to get to 6-8%. My thoughts.

Per the above, looks like you've got some room to improve on your diet. May want to give Adam's diet a try and see what happens. It's got to be tight though if you want to get lean. I've been doing Berardi's Get Shredded Diet for almost 4-weeks now - if your stalled you may want to look at that as well. Check out my Training/Nutrition Log...Ted

BFG · 08-10-2006, 03:59 PM

at that height and weight yuo want to be starting around 1900 calories.

Apart from the junk food and way off the scale fat intake you need to get consistancy on the level of calories. As Ive mentioned before you can run for weightloss but its not ideal for fat loss.

Try to plan ahead and aim for a week of 1900 calories then reduce that by 200 for second week up 100 for 3rd week and down 200 fourth and so on.

One thing you are not mentioning is your water intake, you want to enable the kidneys and liver to do their jobs to metabolise fat and rid them and toxins from the body together with excess retained water.

As for scales throw them out the window and only weigh yourself after 4 weeks. Let the clothes be the guide

Jason B · 08-10-2006, 04:26 PM

80 min of jogging at 6mph burns 872 cals?! That's way off. Low intensity cardio burns jack squat for calories, esp. once you become good at it. Clean up your diet, lift heavy 3-4 times a week, and do HIIT 2-4 times a week. And like everyone else said, just use fitday to track cals, and get your calories burned somewhere else. Here's more than enough info for your diet needs:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=629609

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 04:27 PM

Jogging dosen't burn a small number of calories. It just takes a LONG time to burn them. running for 80 minutes is NOT easy. It's just not fast and maybe not going to target fat as effectively as intervals.

(6mph is a 10km run in about 60minutes, which is close to my run pace and ODBs judging by his log)

Jason B · 08-10-2006, 08:24 PM

Aerobics still suck for fat loss. Esp. once your good enough to run for 80 minutes, your body is an efficient machine, efficient at using oxygen for fuel, it has no reason to burn fat. This is a pretty simple explanation as to why low intensity, steady state aerobics are horrible for body comp.

Now, don't get me wrong, running for 80 minutes is impressive and takes work, I sure as hell couldn't do it, but it's not going to help Jim with his goal of losing fat, it may even hinder his progress.

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 08:36 PM

Yeah, but what you said was there was no way running 80 mins and 6mph would burn 800+ cals. I disagree. I know it's not 100% accurate, but it is a ballpark, and running that far does take a lot of calories.

Also see my last comment, "not going to target fat as effectively".

I agree with most of what Alwyn says there. Apart from the thought that as you get fitter at running distances it gets easier. Sure if you don't have any progression, but frankly that's kinda stupid.

It's like saying if I only ever deadlift 100lbs I will get better at lifting 100lbs. if I never change the way I do it. If I always deadlift 100lbs 3x10 then that's what I'll be good at lifting. We of course change it up. We add weight, we change tempos, we change reps and sets.

With running you need to do the same thing. You need to change distance, you need to change speed, volume etc.

Should he do some HIIT in there, sure, it would be beneficial for fat loss, but if he enjoys running I wouldn't tell him to stop.

So no I am not saying steady state is the end all and be all. Intervals are definetely an effective part of a training routine and deal with the change in intensity and volume. Sprinting is invaluable for gathering speed. But to say running 80mins at 6mph isn't going to burn close to 800cals is in MY opinion ludicrious.

I guess it comes down to this.

If he is running 10km stints soley to lose fat I would agree it is not the most effective method. If he is running 10km because he is a runner and it is his chosen sport, more power to him.

Lost Dog · 08-10-2006, 08:41 PM

Actually, despite what fitday says, running and cals burned are based primarily on your weight and how far you run, irrespective of the speed.

running calculator

Of course, if you're an experienced runner, you'll be more efficient, and burn fewer cals per mile. Good job!

fitday was being stingy with the cals burned, too. How about 1106? Betcha a lot of that was lean mass, too. With a run that long, you'd better be doing it for reasons other than fat loss. Better make sure to eat or drink some cals (carbs and protein) along the way, too. Preserve the muscle, man.

Ogedei · 08-10-2006, 08:51 PM

In the end I didn't have any desire to have this become HIIT vs steady state, cause frankly I believe they both have their place.

My only real point was that 800 cals isn't out of line.

Lost Dog · 08-10-2006, 11:58 PM

OG, I was typing while you were posting. It only looks like I'm disagreeing with you. I'm not...

RobLL · 08-11-2006, 12:12 AM

Og, I wasn't running but doing walking intervals on the running machine. Fast at 4.2mph and 15 degree incline and it said about 800 calories an hour. I know those aren't terribly accurate but its likely in the ball park. Maybe I could do it for two minutes, not 80! Rob

Ogedei · 08-11-2006, 11:18 AM

umm ok. So your agreeing with us that 800+ cals for running 80 mins isn't out to lunch like JasonB seemed to think?

Jimbo · 08-11-2006, 12:25 PM

Wow. I just revisited this thread and I missed a lot of stuff. You guys don't hesitiate to discuss running vs. HIIT here. I find it very interesting especially if what I am doing may not get me to my goals.

I do love to run. And LD, yeah, after my run I always drink a 52 carb/with 22 protien shake. (breakfast)

I'm not so much concerned at this point abou gettin huge. I do realize that's NOT gonna happen with what I am doing now. I am liftin 3 days a week and doing longer runs on the days in between. I usually do a mile on the treadmill prior to lifting and it's usually when I push and do something similar to HIIT. I say "something similar" because I'm not really timing my intervals. I just hit it at an 8 minute mile pace or better for as long as I can and then drop it back to a jog or fast walk till I catch my breath. I do this for a mile before I lift.

I am maintaining my strength so far. I'm not all that strong but I'm trying to keep the strength I have. Lower body strength has dropped off a little as to be expected with all the running. But I'm fighting the fight to keep the strength up. (squats, DL's, Bench...etc)

I appreciate everyone's input here. I'm really focusing on my diet. I'm trying to put together a planned menu of what I will eat. That's new for me..my diet the last years of training is that I have flown by the seat of my pants and just tried to "eat healthy stuff". That has not worked. And as several of you pointed out...I will have to get serious about my dieet to see these last punds of fat fall away.

I found myself in unfamiliar territory yesterday. When I got to the end of the evening and was entering the last of my meals..I realized I was REALLY low on calories. I was like around 1100 calories. Eating cleaner makes it actually harder to get those calories! So...I ate some more.

Probably a bad move before bed huh?

Anyway, I'm seeing the value of pre-planning my diet in order to control the calories better. Based on what I have read in here....you don't want to go too low or it will kill the metabolism. Too high...and well...we all know what that does.

So...I'm planning now. Hopefully the next few weeks of fitday logs will show a more stable, clean diet.

Sorry for the long ramble. You guys keep the debate going...I find it interesting and educational.

RobLL · 08-11-2006, 02:27 PM

Interesting think about these high intensity long period workouts. You have to train and adapt your body into them. I can, or could, do them swimming and bicycling, but not running, nor walking on the treadmill. I suspect that it may be a factor of keeping in shape to be able to do at least one hour burning at the 800 kcal per hour doing something. Rob

Jimbo · 08-11-2006, 04:36 PM

I just re-read my last post. Geeze..I really need to do a spell check before I post. Sorry for all the typos to those who it offends. I know you're out there...

malkore · 08-14-2006, 12:00 PM

I'm a few days late, but yes, fitday's 'activity level' uses bad multipliers on the harris - benedict BMR formula.

i.e. a sedentary, bed-ridden person should get 0 multiplier...just their BMR, cuz they can't get up and move.

however fitday does a 1.2 multiplier.

so yeah on fitday, you either have to underestimate your activity level, or just ignore it and go off normal harris modifiers.
most of use would be in the 1.4-1.6 range unless your job requires a lot of activity.

BamaDave · 08-14-2006, 01:19 PM

You can lose the fat and still do long distance running since you enjoy it. Just keep up the weight training and work on your diet, as you plan to do. My own personal past experience was that running long distance alone plus the old school high carb/low fat diet led to me being skinny/flabby with love handles, etc. Weights alone without much attention to diet led to a stronger but still fat version of myself. Weights plus running plus good diet resulted in me leaning out way more than I ever had in the past. HIIT is most likely the best approach for combining fat loss with retaining muscle, but it's all a balancing act and, since you like running, it is possible to keep it up and lean out really well.

Ogedei · 08-14-2006, 01:31 PM

No matter your goals I would recommend HIIT or Hill repeats or SOME kind of interval training when training for distance anyhow

Jimbo · 08-14-2006, 04:05 PM

I'm trying to make sure and do HIIT on my lift days. Actually, the training is the EASY part. It's gettin my diet nailed down that is the biatch.

My first MAJOR struggle is to talk my wifey into moving away from SO MUCH beef (hamburger mostly) in our diets. Once I get her moved into turkey land...I feel like I will have turned a big corner. Most of my fat intake comes from all the beef we consume. She has been pretty supportive of me...so I'm not complaining. She is not into fitness by any stretch of the imagination so it's tough to get her to understand my mindset. But we will get there. This effort on cleaning my diet is a new phase for me AND her. Wish me luck.

Today's set back. Chocolate birthday cake.

I sware...I AM doing better. Just seems like these little junk food occasions keep popping up. Today...I indulged in a piece. 6 miles in the morning! MUST MAKE MYSELF PAAAAAAYYYYYY!

Jimbo · 08-14-2006, 04:09 PM

Thanks for chiming in Bama. You describe my experience so far to a "T".

I'll concentrate on getting HIIT a little more serious. I've been doing a little just before lifting..only about a mile. So it's very little. I may try adding an HIIT session during the week INSTEAD of one of my long runs. (if I can force myself into it.) I do love those long runs..