Diet, Nutrition and SupplementationPost here for supplement reviews or nutritional advice. If you're trying to get "ripped abz" THIS is where you should be.
I'm training for the chicago marathon according to Hal's program and now my runs are slowly increasing into long-range on weekends (12miler last saturday). So, i was happily following my regular clean eating routines with a regular meal ~1-2hrs before the long run and then PWO drink (3-4 cups of skim or chocolate milk usually). but i was talking to this long-time runner yesterday and she was "shocked" to hear that i did not use any form of simple carb nutrition right before or during the runs, such as gatorade, hard candy, gels or similar form of simple carbs. now, i'm not exactly sure what my response should've been so i figured i'd ask here - is the diet for a normal runner any different then following the clean eating routines we all do here? should i really be including gatorade/powerade type nutrition pre or during the runs, especially the long ones? i'm not trying to lose weight and am eating at maintenence, btw, with the goal being to lose the last 1-3lbs of fat (i weighttrain 3x/wk too).
I pretty much stick to the clean eating routines discussed around here, although I probably do eat more fruit than most to try to keep my carb intake up. However, I do bring sports drink with me on runs over 10 miles in hot weather, and pretty much on any run over 15-16 miles, regardless of the weather. I add some whey protein to it to get a carb:protein ration of 4:1 to 5:1, since that is supposed to facilitate the benefits of the endurance drink both during and immediately after exercise. I also drink about 12 ounces of a concoction like this right after almost every run, and about 24 ounces after a longer and/or hot run (I have major dehyrdration problems, as I am a heavy sweater). I do think getting some fast carbs and protein right after the run helps with recovery.
If your runs are going okay without gels or endurance drinks, I wouldn't worry about it, although the endurance drink or at least water may become more critical as your long runs get longer.
I use gels during marathons and occasionally use them on my longest long runs - 20 miles or more. I really don't think most people need them for a 12-miler.
A lot of runners have crappy diets, in my opinion. Don't ever read the Runner's World Nutrition Forum unless you just want to chime in on a "What's Your Favorite Cookie" or "What's Your Favorite Cereal" thread. LOL! True enough, if you run a lot of miles, it's hard to eat excess calories and your weight will stay under control. But if you are concerned about providing your body with the best nutrients, etc., being a runner isn't a license to eat loads of sugar and refined junk.
I agree with Dave, although I think I'm a case for increasing simple carbs before and during the runs. See my post on reeking of amonia in the training section.
I generally have a very clean diet and usually have a meal with complex carbs and protein about 1 before the run. I drink Gatorade during the run and then have chocolate milk afterwards. My progress has been excellent (and steady -- I ran 14 miles last Saturday). However I've had some difficulty recovering from the longer runs and increasing my carbs has seemed to help. However, if you're not having any issues with the distance then don't change a thing. At some point you will probably want the additional carbs so keep close tabs on your progress and if you feel like they'll help them then add them in and see if it helps.
I think it's to each his own personally. I ran 10 miles yesterday and all I had was one bottle of water. I made sure to eat a big meal about 2 hours out, and then a good, clean meal as soon as my stomach settled down. I typically will have a gel with me, but I ran long and hard, even threw some intervals in there and was fine.
My point is, it's different for everyone. There are some great guidelines out there to follow, but it's all about experimentation. I have a super hard time keeping ANYTHING down during a run. Just because some other runner told you to do this or that, that doesn't make it 100% accurate. You have to try it for yourself. If you're getting good results eating before and after, but not during, then I say keep doing that!
With all that said, a good meal about 1-2 hours ahead of time and a good balanced meal about 1-2 hours after a long run should do you just fine. I usually try to get a Endurox/Whey Protein shake in about 20 minutes or so after a run, usually with a piece of fruit. And then I just go about my normal clean eating routine. It's worked for me!
E
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UpNorth, i read your thread on ammonia too and i have the exact same problem. i normally smell somewhat after runs but on long runs, it's just ridiculous. does this indicate that my carb intake is too low? performance-wise i feel fine and i definitely include good pre and post run nutrition - it's the "during" that i'm wondering if i'm missing out on. should i up my carb intake b/c of the smell issue indicating it's low?
LBM, from my swimming training I found that my body responded best when I had something like Accelerade (basically gatorade+whey) during the workout along with plenty of water.
No need for simple carbs right before the workout, as your glycogen stores would presumably be fully stocked from the rest of your previous day's eating... but at the same time you want to replenish during a long exercise bout.
If I were training the same way now, I'd definitely be mixing one nalgene with gatorade+whey and another with pure water.
__________________ You're not the only one improving yourself... I worked out with a dumbbell today -- I feel vigorous!!!
UpNorth, i read your thread on ammonia too and i have the exact same problem. i normally smell somewhat after runs but on long runs, it's just ridiculous. does this indicate that my carb intake is too low? performance-wise i feel fine and i definitely include good pre and post run nutrition - it's the "during" that i'm wondering if i'm missing out on. should i up my carb intake b/c of the smell issue indicating it's low?
Could be that you're low on carbs -- I really don't know. I'm going to try a gel about 1/2 way through my run this weekend and I'm going to stash a bottle somewhere along my route and increase my fluid intake. I'll report back to the "ammonia" thread and here with my results. I should say that running long distance is a new thing for me so I'm just going through trial and error finding what works best for me, but to echo emartin's comment, everyone is different so you should go through some trial and error with yourself as well. And if you do let us know what you find!
Now I know where these ammonia odors are coming from when the wind is out of the North or Northeast!
I was buying Accelerade for awhile, but recently I have just been adding some Vanilla Whey to Gatorade in approx. the same proportions. I know Accelerade is supposed to have an optimally absorbed sugar, though. But the price difference is significant.
Could be that you're low on carbs -- I really don't know. I'm going to try a gel about 1/2 way through my run this weekend and I'm going to stash a bottle somewhere along my route and increase my fluid intake. I'll report back to the "ammonia" thread and here with my results. I should say that running long distance is a new thing for me so I'm just going through trial and error finding what works best for me, but to echo emartin's comment, everyone is different so you should go through some trial and error with yourself as well. And if you do let us know what you find!
Good Luck
As promised, I'm reporting back. I just came back from my run and this time I took along 2 GU packs. No ammonia smell this time around and my performance and recovery were GREATLY improved. I took one gel 1/3 of the way into the run and the other 2/3 of the way through. I'm not sure I needed both but I felt great the entire distance. I would say they made a huge difference.
However, I have to say that it is much cooler today than it was last week and I needed significantly less fluid so I'm sure that has something to do with it as well, but hell, I'll be taking GU packs along with each long run even if it's just a placebo.
Upnorth, thanks for the update. i started drinking water (came back home after 6miles to drink 2 glasses) and my run was better on friday but the smell remained. i may have to give this Gel thing a try - how long was the run that you went on?
Milkman, i normally drink milk or chocolate milk after the runs which i like better than pure whey/gatorade combo but i may start adding some more sugar to it or something.
I'm mentioning Gatorade+Whey to be consumed *during* the training session if it's lasting you 40+ minutes.
Glycogen stores take a significant hit on such training bouts, and PWO replenishment isn't enough to keep you up to speed during the latter stages of the session. From personal experience, during sessions of 1+ hours of intense cardio I've sustained performance much better when having P+C product than just C or just H2O.
__________________ You're not the only one improving yourself... I worked out with a dumbbell today -- I feel vigorous!!!
Upnorth, thanks for the update. i started drinking water (came back home after 6miles to drink 2 glasses) and my run was better on friday but the smell remained. i may have to give this Gel thing a try - how long was the run that you went on?
I ran 14 miles in just under 2 hours.
You should most definately be hydrating during your runs. If, for any other reason, so you can get used to running with a belly full of liquid. You WILL need to hydrate during the marathon and you don't want that to be your first experience with the sloshing belly.
Before you try the gels try some Gatorade or Powerade first. They will give you some carbs and will hydrate you quicker than just water and it might be all you need.
I generally take some watered down gatorade on my long runs over 12 miles. If it's really hot I'll bring water on my 8-10 milers. Gels are ok if you get past the texture. I've used them a couple times, and will probably try them again as my runs are getting up past 16 miles. One thing with the gels, you need to take water with them! For one, you'll want the water to wash it down, and two, you need to rehydrate.
Different diet for runners?
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