Low-Carb/Calorie Moodiness...

[Blackjack]

I posted this in my training log, but thought I'd cut/paste it in here to get a more broad audience...Ted

Yesterday's diet was good - right in the range it needed to be. Which is funny because I finally gave into my sweet tooth and bought a South Beach Diet bar - which isn't too bad - but it actually brought me up to the proper levels of carbs and protein for the day go figure.

However, my days on this diet may be numbered. Everthing is going well, I'm still progressing, not too hungry, and I'm happy with the results. But I seem to be a victim of a side effect. My wife has asked me what my problem has been the past couple of weeks. I've been very moody, more so than normal. Very edgy, very quick to fly off the handle. This is saying something considering that I have a pretty short fuse normally, but something has made it worse over the past couple weeks. So to me, it has to be this diet. Not sure if it's the lower carbs or the lower calories or a combination of the two, but it's not good. Both members of my family and her family have asked what's wrong with me.

I've tried to do some research, but didn't come up with much. What I did find was that carbs help produce Seritonin (sp?) in your body and that helps regulate your moods. Like I've said, this is the first time I've ever done a diet like this so I'm not sure what else it could be. I asked Galya over at her training log if she's ever seen anything like this and she said her husband gets that way so I'm wondering if it's maybe a testosterone level issue as well.

If anyone reading this has any insight or experience with this I'd really appreciate some help.

I'm really at a loss...my wife is not pleased with me right now and I can see why. So I may go off this diet sooner than I planned and will see what happens.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Ted

[Lisa~]

Blackjack, low carbs diets affect me this way as well. I hope that some of the nutrition experts like Michael will offer a clearer answer, but I know for myself that I am more compliant with, and therefore more successful with, a moderate carb diet, say a 40/30/30 or a 50/30/20 (carb, protein, fat). I just feel better.

So many people talk about how successful they are on a low carb diet. Every time it comes up I'll think maybe I should give that a try again. But if I do, I re-learn that it is just not what is right for ME.

[emartin10]

Blackjack - something that I noticed in my personal experience was that when I was on a lower calorie diet, I was much more moody when I had caffeine. I have no science or anything to support this, but I switched to decaf coffee in the morning, and I was a completely different person.

Now when I have enough calories, I'm happy as a clam all the time, but I think the combination of hunger and the anxiety I got from the caffeine set me off big time. Just my thoughts and personal experience.

E

[Paradigm]

I would get like that on low-carb diets, and I am by no means an angry or stressed person (tend to be too chill), so perhaps it just has to do with the carbs. I also happen to love carbs and would be fine eating pasta/bread every meal of every day Of course, I woudlnt' be so happy with how I looked/felt.

Still, when I was on the low-carb diet(s), I *needed* caffeine, otherwise I could barely make it through the day. Then again, I never really felt that low-carb diets were meant for athletic people, and I tried these diets while spending the summer in Hilton Head Island, SC, playing tennis in the middle of the day in the heat, or going to the gym, so I probably needed those carbs....to make matters worse, I had to work my retail job, dealing with stupid, "princess-like" tourons (tourist + moron), so the job was that much worse.

[RobLL]

From my low carb forums I gather that after your body gets more used to burning fat this is not a problem. I never used those funny colored sticks, but I am told that if your t-shirt smells like ammonia (yuk) toward the end of a work out you are burning fat. I can't stand myself at the end of a workout, really ammonia-y. Don't know if this all is truly accurate. Anyone know? Rob

[Lost Dog]

My first low carb diet was like that. But, I think it was the low calories, since I've done other diets, far lower in carbs (yet more cals) and had fewer problems.

[Adam Campbell]

I'm with LD.

Based on my personal experience, and talking with others, it has 1) to do with low calories (go on a low-calorie, low-fat diet and you'll likely be moody as well), and 2) not enough fat.

I can't stress enough how much difference this last one makes. Most people who eat low-carb aren't getting enough fat, and by extension, aren't getting enough calories. But even if calories are ample, you'll still probably be miserable on a low-carb, high-protein, low-fat diet.

Now there is likely an adaptation period, so that could be the cause. But I've noticed that the more fat I eat, the better I feel and the nicer I am

I can tell you that I have to consciously remind myself to eat more fat--and I'm not at all fat-phobic--like on steak. I even started having a snack of heavy cream (yes, people think I'm gross) in the afternoon, which is both high in fat and high in calories.

My mood has been very good as has my concentration. Dr. Mary Vernon calls this keto-euphoria, which I had never heard of before--but she says she sees it quite often in her patients. (She works with type II diabetics; the ketogenic diet has been quite effective at getting them off their medication.) The key: High ketone levels, which means a high fat intake to go along with very few carbs.

Fish oil may help, too.

[ZachL]

You might try supplementation to help you:
various helpful things exist for mental health, like st. john's wort and sam-e. But if I were you, I'd rather not use drug to treat something I'm doing myself - better to fix it yourself. You might try the supplementation anyway, even if you fix your diet.

[Blackjack]

Thanks very much for all the responses.

For those that haven't read my training log, I'm doing the Get Shredded Diet that Dr. Berardi wrote a few weeks back.

I'm taking in between 1870 & 2290kcal per day. Macro breakdown is as follows: Protein 35% (164-200g/day); Carb 10% (47-57g/day, all coming from veggies); Fat 55% (114-140g/day). Plus Fish Oil, multi-vitamin, Greens Plus, 20g BCAA/day, 10g Creatine Monohydrate/day, Spike.

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by ZachL

You might try supplementation to help you:
various helpful things exist for mental health, like st. john's wort and sam-e. But if I were you, I'd rather not use drug to treat something I'm doing myself - better to fix it yourself. You might try the supplementation anyway, even if you fix your diet.

I'd really like to avoid that and stick with manipulating my diet instead. But thanks for the suggestion.

Frankly, I'm feeling better just being aware of what's going on and what may be causing it..

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by Adam Campbell

I'm with LD.

Based on my personal experience, and talking with others, it has 1) to do with low calories (go on a low-calorie, low-fat diet and you'll likely be moody as well), and 2) not enough fat.

I can't stress enough how much difference this last one makes. Most people who eat low-carb aren't getting enough fat, and by extension, aren't getting enough calories. But even if calories are ample, you'll still probably be miserable on a low-carb, high-protein, low-fat diet.

Now there is likely an adaptation period, so that could be the cause. But I've noticed that the more fat I eat, the better I feel and the nicer I am

I can tell you that I have to consciously remind myself to eat more fat--and I'm not at all fat-phobic--like on steak. I even started having a snack of heavy cream (yes, people think I'm gross) in the afternoon, which is both high in fat and high in calories.

My mood has been very good as has my concentration. Dr. Mary Vernon calls this keto-euphoria, which I had never heard of before--but she says she sees it quite often in her patients. (She works with type II diabetics; the ketogenic diet has been quite effective at getting them off their medication.) The key: High ketone levels, which means a high fat intake to go along with very few carbs.

Fish oil may help, too.

Adam, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. See my above post with my intake, is that sufficient amounts of fat?

Thanks again.
Ted

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by Lost_Dog

My first low carb diet was like that. But, I think it was the low calories, since I've done other diets, far lower in carbs (yet more cals) and had fewer problems.

Thanks LD, Galya figured it was more an issue of the low calories not the low carbs too. And I'm usually in a pretty bad mood when I'm hungry, but honestly I'm not feeling that hungry any more on this diet! The first week was tough, but it seems like my body has adapted to the lower calories.

Thanks again.
Ted

[galya]

If you are losing there is no way you are getting enough calories, yes.
So that goes with its side effects. Maybe you will find that a low carb diet is good for you only with ample calories or a low cal low carb diet will work best with refeeds build in. You'll have to experiment and find out. Also, doesn't Berardi recommend a sup to deal with CNS fatigue?

[Cassandra Forsythe]

From personal and research experiences with ketogenic diets, mood swings are more a function of insufficient energy intake coupled with an inability to use the calories that you are taking in.

Translation: your body has not learned how to use fat as a fuel, so it is basically starving and is as such, sending your mood into the toilet.

To fix this, increase your caloric intake from the foods that you can eat (zero-carb high-fat foods like cream, hard cheeses, fish with oils i.e. sardines, salmon, etc) until your body learns that fat is an energy source. Some people call this the adaptation phase as Adam wrote about.

Also, Adam is right, you have to be mindful of your fat intake. If anything, cut back a little more on protein and add more fat foods. Another thing that might help is MCT oil: it's preferentially oxidized and not stored, so it will help your body learn how to use fat and spare glucose (the more glucose is spared, the less your blood sugars will swing, and the better you will feel).

Don't give up on the diet. Give it at least one solid month before you stop. It takes some people more time that others to make it work for them, but in the end it is worth it.

Also, I may seem biased, but I do know exactely how you feel. I have a VERY hard time adapting to a ketogenic diet. It takes me a lot longer than other people to get my body to use fat as a fuel; but, in the end, I feel much better, think much better, and can concentrate much better than when I'm on any other low-calorie diet.

OH! one more thing: TRY DROPPING THE SPIKE. It's a powerful stimulant that may be another one of your mood-altering problems.

Hope this helps.

[Terry Monk]

Blackjack is using the Spike as a stand-in for the Power Drive that Berardi suggests using to offset CNS fatigue. I plan to do the same when I start the diet next week.
That said, Cassandra, do you still suggest dropping it? I know I may very well react differently than he did/does, but I'm still curious for your answer/thoughts.

[Blackjack]

Thanks again to everyone for the input & advice. Over the weekend, I've talked with other members of my family and they've echoed my wive's comments. Reading the above, it may be an issue of the lower calories, intense workouts and the Spike may be taxing my CNS. However, I'm getting very close to my goal weight/bodyfat so this is most likely the last week of the diet. Although going forward, I may continue to eat a lot like this, just in larger quantities. So I will certainly continue my training log to record progress as well as updates on my dramatic mood swings. Thanks again for all the help. It makes me feel much better to know that I'm not the only one who reacts this way!

Ted

[Cassandra Forsythe]

Originally Posted by gymrat

Blackjack is using the Spike as a stand-in for the Power Drive that Berardi suggests using to offset CNS fatigue. I plan to do the same when I start the diet next week.
That said, Cassandra, do you still suggest dropping it? I know I may very well react differently than he did/does, but I'm still curious for your answer/thoughts.

Power Drive does not have the same stimulant ingredients that Spike has. It's not meant to make you jittery and irritable, nor does it do so. If you're going to use Spike as a stand in, get the caffeine-free version so as to lower your epinephrine production (and in turn, your stress response).

[Michael Roussell]

Blackjack,

It seems like you've recieved a lot of good advice already so my input may be redundant. From my personal experience with low carb living the continued moodiness is often caused by your body not undergoing the "switch" to using fat as a main fuel source (as already pointed out my Cass, Adam, and others).
The level of carbs that one can consume and still make this switch is variable person to person. For me I know that i cannot consume very many carbs at all (initially) while my Dad makes me sick because he can consume much higher levels of carbs and still make the metabolic switch.

I would...
increase dietary fat consumption (and fish oil - this can help with mood)
reduce carbs if possible (otherwise drop protein)

I would think that you would notice a difference in 3-4 days. If not then bump up your calories a little (in the form of fats) and see if you notice a change. Many people can tell when the "switch" has occured because they feel normal again and not so much like they are dieting.

Good luck and tell your wife you appreciate her patience