Just Curious...

[Canadian_Bacon]

How many of you have totally eliminated grains from your diet? I typically have about 2 slices of whole grain bread @ breakfest and was thinking of elminating it totally.

The paleo diet is conceptually appealing due to its simplicity but I havent seen much ACTUAL scientific data that backs it up. Saying no to fermented dairy also strikes me as a little bit quesitonable.

[Lost Dog]

I've minimized my grains dramatically, but haven't eliminated them.

I've read the Paleo Diet for Athletes, but not the first one.

I'm convinced that they should be minimized. Much of my conviction is based on multiple sources of the same message. It seems logical on the face of it, too. Non-direct data also plays into it. Acid/base balance being a bit part of it. I believe that to be an issue in many areas of health and the data on acid/base levels of foods is pretty clear.

I think Berardi's site has some article with good references.

Maybe Johnka can point us in the right direction...

As to dairy, I didn't buy into that as much. With the exception, again, of the acid/base relationships.

I think a lot of us have slight, almost imperceptible alergies/reactions to dairy and just don't know it until we get off of it. The less dairy I eat, the less congestion I have. Not that it's EVER been a big problem, but I have noticed less of it since I slowed down on the dairy. I still have yogurt and cheese, just less of it than before.

[BFG]

Im dairy free now and its made a huge huge difference, am certanly not grain free and dont intend to be either tho

[I. Kay]

I often have a couple of flax waffles for breakfast, which does include grains. About 25g worth. Other than that... almost never! I have rice with my Friday afternoon Indian buffet cheat meal (yeeeeah baby!) but other than that, I go weeks without bread, pasta, rice, etc.

Quinoa isn't really a grain, and even that I don't eat much of any more.

I run almost entirely off protein, fat, fruits and vegetables. All last month even my post-workout shake included honey, rather than malto- or the like.

[galya]

Honey is great PWO. I still remember my dad (a martial arts guy) mixing honey and sesame tahini preworkout when I was a kid. He still does it.
I use crude wheat bran and flax seeds for fiber, that's all.

[BFG]

Yep I switched to the honey too and the added benefit of a localy produced one seems to stop my hayfever

[Brian A.]

I have never tried it myself, but one of the trainers I work with is a competitive cyclist and he just started it about a month ago. He swears by it. He says he lost like 6 lbs of flab and he feels great.

It worked out for me because he gave me all of his whey protein

[emartin10]

I eat a crap load of grains. I've lost a ton of weight through my training, and when I don't have carbs - I'm worthless. Tired, lethargic, and really can't get a good workout in. Bear in mind, I train anywhere from 8 - 12 hours a week pure cardio. Brian - I'd be interested in hearing more about your cycling friend, and what he does for fuel.

E

[Canadian_Bacon]

The only two doubt inducing questions I have is:

1) Where is the scientific research? Not just antropologic bu t some medical studies showing any problems with grains(and I am not talking about alergies).

2) The two cultural regions in recent memory with the greatest life expectancy, lowest cancer and CVD rates are probably the okinawins and the mediteranian regions. Both of these cultures get a heafty amount of calories from CHO's.

Any thoughts on these points?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Canadian_Bacon

The only two doubt inducing questions I have is:

1) Where is the scientific research? Not just antropologic bu t some medical studies showing any problems with grains(and I am not talking about alergies).

2) The two cultural regions in recent memory with the greatest life expectancy, lowest cancer and CVD rates are probably the okinawins and the mediteranian regions. Both of these cultures get a heafty amount of calories from CHO's.

Any thoughts on these points?

1. When I read about the anthropologic theories, the books included references to all sorts of studies, then used the "cavemen" and hunter/gatherer types as examples of people where that seems to have worked. I do not have studies at my disposal. I was convinced that grains, legumes, and starchy vegetables are not necessary. I was inclined to believe that eliminating them would be better for us, yet I still have not done that. I've merely slowed my intake.

2. The typical mediteranian diet does include breads, rice, and pasta, but not in the quantities that we eat here. It's a more moderate carb diet than our North American diet. Plus, they eat less food and are more active. Eat more fish, fewer fried foods, more vegetables, more healthy fats.

Take a look at any of those Okinawan diet books. Can you say "calorie restriction?" No thanks.

[BFG]

disagree there LD the mediteranean diet is far far carb heavier than US diet % wise they just dont have as vast portions.

An Italian Christmas dinner tho is a sight to be seen!!!!!!!!

[BamaDave]

I'm in the "reduced grains" camp (says the guy who just ate a big bowl of steel cut oats :p). I often have some grains for breakfast, but then not much for the rest of the day. I do eat lowfat dairy products pretty regularly. The bulk of my diet is lean meat and fish, eggs/egg whites, vegetables, fruits, nuts, and lowfat dairy. But I'm not a maniac - I do cheat!

I tried going a lot more "Paleo" with my diet a few months ago. I did fine on it, although I was following more of the "Paleo Diet for Athletes" approach that allowed recovery non-Paleo foods (I was in heavy duty marathon training at the time). The majority of my diet was Paleo-oriented. I just found it really difficult to keep up (not to mention very expensive) and am much more able to follow a diet skewed toward Paleo principles rather than one that follows them almost religiously.

It's not easy to adapt to -- no grains, no legumes (no peanut butter! )), no salt, no refined sugars, no illegal fats, no processed foods (including canned fish), no dairy. This is tough!

I think the concept is good, but I would really like to see a comparison of a Paleo Diet versus a less restrictive "low glycemic load" diet that incorporated copious amounts of vegetables and fruits. Sometimes I wonder whether the benefits of the Paleo approach are more about what we don't get from the typical modern diet, rather than the detriments of what we are eating in the typical modern diet.

Plus I also recall seeing some articles describing substantially healthy "non-modern" people around the world in isolated areas who do eat non-Paleo diets and yet have similar blood lipid profiles, etc. to those who do follow Paleo principles. The common denominator was that they eat whole foods (some eat dairy) and not overly refined, processed modern crap.

On the other hand, my running training was going extremely well around the time that I Paleo'd up my diet. I have no way to know whether it was the diet or other training things I was doing, but I am considering skewing my diet even more back to Paleo principles in the Fall for racing season just in case!

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by BFG

disagree there LD the mediteranean diet is far far carb heavier than US diet % wise they just dont have as vast portions.

An Italian Christmas dinner tho is a sight to be seen!!!!!!!!

perhaps... However, about three years ago, I read a lot of books and articles comparing diets around the world to ours. Most of them pointed out that the typical, daily Med diet was far lower in carbs and higher in proteins and good fats than ours.

Could be wrong. There could be studies going the other way, too, for all I know. And, I've never been to Mediterania, either.

Also, remember that a holiday meal is nothing like a daily meal. Thank God!

[Lost Dog]

Dave,

I think there are a lot of Paleo Diet principals that we can put into place. I agree that the diet, as a whole, is a bit difficult.

There are things I'm willing to give up, things I'm willing to add, things I'm willing to minimize. I've chosen to minimize grains and starchy carbs, except after a workout. Minimize. I'm planning to have French Toast with the kids, just this morning! No workout in sight.

I'm not giving up canned foods, that's for sure. Frozen foods are a given. Organic, when practical. I'm not adding any organ meats, either. No thanks. I eat tacos de lengua, periodically, but they come in tortillas, so I'm not really buying much, eh?

The peanut thing was hard, as I used those little packs of peanuts as a snack all the time. I make up my own little packs of nuts.

Peanut butter was hard, too. The peanut butter is gone, though. I've considered almond butter, but I'm afraid I'll binge on that like the peanut butter. So, it's still at the store. Never even tried it. I'm pretending that it's probably disgusting, anyway. That helps.

I'd really minimized dairy for a while. But, it's back. No milk, but I missed cottage cheese. Finally gave in and bought a few tubs the other day.

[emartin10]

I think a "Mediterranean Diet" is far different than most folks think. Sure the Italians eat a lot of pasta, but in comparison to our potatoes, french fries, and sandwiches, they far less than we do. At 90 % of the restaurants in Italy, you have to typically order pasta as a separate course. Most of the mains are seafood with olive oil and veggies. They don't just eat spagetti and meatballs and ravioli all day. Plus, the Greek diet falls under "Mediterranean" and they eat olives and olive oil like maniacs, and hardly ANY pasta.

So to say that the Mediterranean diet is pure pasta is kind of off base. Although, BFG, I think you've probably had more exposure to it than most of us, I've just travelled there quite a bit. No offense to you in this post!

E

[BFG]

Originally Posted by Lost_Dog

perhaps... However, about three years ago, I read a lot of books and articles comparing diets around the world to ours. Most of them pointed out that the typical, daily Med diet was far lower in carbs and higher in proteins and good fats than ours.

Could be wrong. There could be studies going the other way, too, for all I know. And, I've never been to Mediterania, either.

Also, remember that a holiday meal is nothing like a daily meal. Thank God!

been there on hols many a time and have Greek, Italian and Maltese friends all whose families I have visited and stayed with.

Im quite into cooking so often ask about how they do things and in particlur in Italy was shocked at how little meat they actualy do use when cooking pasta dishes.

Greeks do eat alot of veggies and olives but they also eat a hell of alot of bread (pitta or otherwise) and potatoes.

But one thing they do all have in common is there love and liberal usage of olive oil I swear they would drink it neat all day long if they could!

ps Didnt say they were all pasta said they were carb heavier

[smoddelm]

Stupid question I guess, since everyone here seems to know what this is all about, but what is the specific benefit one would expect from not eating grains? Does it relate to minimizing body fat, putting on muscle, or what?

[emartin10]

BFG - fair enough, you're right about the bread in Greek culture, and VERY right about drinking olive oil! LOL - so true!!

I should restate what I said, a little differently though. The big thing I like about Mediterranean culture is that their foods are influenced by what is around them. Anywhere in the middle of the country, pasta, pasta, pasta, veggies, and mostly land animals - because that's what's produced there. Along the coast, it's all fish.

And I would say that I'm not 100% sold on the fact that they eat as many carbs as we do. I agree that it's close, but for the not so health concious American, the diet is burgers w/ buns, sandwiches, cookies, cakes, soda, french fries, etc. etc. I think they just tend to lean towards healthier carbs. I would also say it's probably much different here in the US than it is in the UK.

Sorry this got so off topic!!

E