Should I take Any More Supplements?

[nyguy]

I'm already taking protein shakes, fish oils, some vitamins and creatine. I was reading on the other thread about NO-Xplode and some experiences with arginine. I was surprised with larrabee's comments that even though he has seen some gains on his squat, he will not buy the stuff again unless something blows his mind. I mean, it's a positive feedback on the product, right? I was thinking of just adding arginine if I could buy it cheap.

The reason I ask is because sometimes I feel that my strengh and resistance during a workout went down from the previous week. I've been working my ass off, I changed my entire life to be a healthier person to the point where my wife feels I'm very strict and although I have good results, my feelings is that my progress should be steady, not fluctuating like this. I'ts frustrating!!!

[Canadian_Bacon]

results will fluctuate, it is a fantasy that people create if they think otherwise.

IMHO, as far as lifting goes you have everything that you would need. There are some interesting supplements for health if that sort of thing interests you:
- Green Tea Extract(ECGC)
- ALCAR
- Adaptogens like Rhodelia Rosea
- Resveratol
- Seasmin(debatable)

Only other thing I find helpful when lifting it a pre-wo stimulant for hard sessions. I either use a stack of ephedrine/caffeine or AMP by Egropharm.

[nyguy]

CB, if I used any supplements like ephedrine, my wife would totally flip out on me. Both because it's illegal in the US and because of all the reported health concerns that led to such ban.

[Canadian_Bacon]

Just commenting on stuff that works and may provide a difference, ephedrine is one of them as a stimulant. Amp and a few others are ephedrine free.

PS: Ephedrine is no longer completely banned in the u.s. and it was never banned were I live(Canada).

Ephedra actually has a well studied mechanism of action and the potential risks are well defined, something I cant say for most of the shit out their.

[Anubis]

Actually NY, it's legal again. The ban was overturned. That doesn't mean I'll touch the stuff. If you ask me it's a lot for the heart to take, especially when you're going to be putting your system through a vigorous workout.

[Canadian_Bacon]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually NY, it's legal again. The ban was overturned. That doesn't mean I'll touch the stuff. If you ask me it's a lot for the heart to take, especially when you're going to be putting your system through a vigorous workout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectively disagree, given proper dosing, usage, and general health it isnt dangerous. Though this topic has been beaten to death so no point getting into it here yet again.

The news jumped on ephedrine and made it out to be a lot worse then it is for heart health. People down a ton of caffeine everyday which is in the same general category of stimulants yet people arent freaking out over its affects on the heart.

I was just commenting on what has worked for me, personally I think the least amount of supplements you use the better but it to teach his own.

All I ever hope is people SEEK OUT the research and studies and become informed and reach their own conclusions. Dont rely on media for the whole picture .

[Lost Dog]

I think you're doing fine with what you've got. NO-Whatever and/or argenine can promote a "pump" but what does that pump actually accomplish? A pump. The actual benefits are psychological. IMO.

There could be a small benefit, but I doubt it would be worth the money and effort to keep taking.

You've got the important ones going already. Keep them up. In fact, if you're eating plenty and healthy, you can save your money on that vitamin, too.

[Canadian_Bacon]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're doing fine with what you've got. NO-Whatever and/or argenine can promote a "pump" but what does that pump actually accomplish? A pump. The actual benefits are psychological. IMO.

There could be a small benefit, but I doubt it would be worth the money and effort to keep taking.

You've got the important ones going already. Keep them up. In fact, if you're eating plenty and healthy, you can save your money on that vitamin, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno about totally dropping the vitamin. W/ a good diet I would definitly choose a cheaper one.

My multivitamin regime: Flinstons Chewable(seriously, they have the basics and not at a super high dose. PLus they taste good), extra calciumI(caus I dont eat a ton of dairy), and Vitamin D(important in the winter if you dont get much sun due to living @ higher latitudes).

The above probably costs me 15 dollars a month CDN. Same as one meal out someplace basically.

[Anubis]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually NY, it's legal again. The ban was overturned. That doesn't mean I'll touch the stuff. If you ask me it's a lot for the heart to take, especially when you're going to be putting your system through a vigorous workout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectively disagree, given proper dosing, usage, and general health it isnt dangerous. Though this topic has been beaten to death so no point getting into it here yet again.

The news jumped on ephedrine and made it out to be a lot worse then it is for heart health. People down a ton of caffeine everyday which is in the same general category of stimulants yet people arent freaking out over its affects on the heart.

I was just commenting on what has worked for me, personally I think the least amount of supplements you use the better but it to teach his own.

All I ever hope is people SEEK OUT the research and studies and become informed and reach their own conclusions. Dont rely on media for the whole picture .

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually relying on personal experience, not the media. Ephedrine is a direct stimulant to the beta receptors for the heart and respiratory system. So it's affect on the heart is evident.
When I took it I had palpitations, increased anxiety, and even got to the point where I had trouble urinating. This all stopped after I quit taking ephedrine.
I'm sure everyone has their own personal experience with it which is why I was only giving my personal opinion. Overall he would have to choose for himself. Not everyone is going to have the same outlook on every supplement.

[Canadian_Bacon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually NY, it's legal again. The ban was overturned. That doesn't mean I'll touch the stuff. If you ask me it's a lot for the heart to take, especially when you're going to be putting your system through a vigorous workout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I respectively disagree, given proper dosing, usage, and general health it isnt dangerous. Though this topic has been beaten to death so no point getting into it here yet again.

The news jumped on ephedrine and made it out to be a lot worse then it is for heart health. People down a ton of caffeine everyday which is in the same general category of stimulants yet people arent freaking out over its affects on the heart.

I was just commenting on what has worked for me, personally I think the least amount of supplements you use the better but it to teach his own.

All I ever hope is people SEEK OUT the research and studies and become informed and reach their own conclusions. Dont rely on media for the whole picture .

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually relying on personal experience, not the media. Ephedrine is a direct stimulant to the beta receptors for the heart and respiratory system. So it's affect on the heart is evident.
When I took it I had palpitations, increased anxiety, and even got to the point where I had trouble urinating. This all stopped after I quit taking ephedrine.
I'm sure everyone has their own personal experience with it which is why I was only giving my personal opinion. Overall he would have to choose for himself. Not everyone is going to have the same outlook on every supplement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I made it pretty clear that I was just giving my opinion on it not any be all end all. I only mentioned the media because he brought it up.

Obviously if you had heart palpitations at a reasonable dose then something pysiologicaly doesnt agree w/ ephedrine and I wouldnt touch it.

Then again if ephedrine gives you that much of a problem I would be hesitant about my consumption of any stimulants(including mild ones like caffeine and its analogs in yerba mate etc) as they could lead to less noticable but more long term problems.

FYI, lots of things stimulate receptors in the heart. It is not like it is physiologically blocked off and nothing can touch it. Most supplements you take will be systemic as receptors are located everywhere. The question is, in general, is moderate stimulation of beta-receptors in the cardiovascular system going to lead to long term problems given everything else is ok? I am not talking about popping ephedrine every day. More like once every few weeks if you arent feeling up to a hard session. From what I have read and experienced it isnt a problem but then again personal judgement is a wonderful thing.

[nyguy]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're doing fine with what you've got. NO-Whatever and/or argenine can promote a "pump" but what does that pump actually accomplish? A pump. The actual benefits are psychological. IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]
But LD, if I'm able to lift a few extra lbs while working out, won't that be good and give me some permanent positive results?

[Lost Dog]

Does a pump help you lift more weight?

It could be the "placebo effect." In which case, merely questioning whether it works, makes it stop working.

But, yes. Anything that helps you lift more weight helps with "permanent" results/progress.

[GqArtguy]

[ QUOTE ]
results will fluctuate, it is a fantasy that people create if they think otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed.

[Kevin Larrabee]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm already taking protein shakes, fish oils, some vitamins and creatine. I was reading on the other thread about NO-Xplode and some experiences with arginine. I was surprised with larrabee's comments that even though he has seen some gains on his squat, he will not buy the stuff again unless something blows his mind. I mean, it's a positive feedback on the product, right? I was thinking of just adding arginine if I could buy it cheap.

The reason I ask is because sometimes I feel that my strengh and resistance during a workout went down from the previous week. I've been working my ass off, I changed my entire life to be a healthier person to the point where my wife feels I'm very strict and although I have good results, my feelings is that my progress should be steady, not fluctuating like this. I'ts frustrating!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I got to explain myself alittle here. My gains were comming before the no-explode. By no means is it a bad product and maybe I was being a little rash. I may end up giving the stuff another shot in the future. I see myself taking it when I begin lifting twice a day as per Chad Waterburys Bodybuildings Next Frontier. I think my gains may have come from just doing CW's 10X3 workout for 4 weeks and now I am on the second week of BNF.

It is just from what I have read about the stuff is that it gives your great pumps for a while after you leave the gym but they go away. Also it gives you a serious energy boost when you hit the weights, but so can a 200mg caffeine pill (120 for $4.99).

Also I hate having to eat, wait an hour, take NO, wait 30 minutes before I can hit the weights. I like to lift right after I get up, and with my class schedual that is the only time I can go without the gym being packed with arnold wanabes.

Also $40.00 for about 3 weeks worth is alot of money and being in college it is hard to justify. I have been off the stuff for 4 days and my arms still look bigger and my squat weight is still going up (of course after only a week). And again I got to give the workouts I have been doing. In the past I have done "fat loss" workouts like Turbulence training. Now I am doing more of a mass program but am dieting. I am geting the gains and losing some fat too.

-Kevin

[nyguy]

Thanks for the reply, Larrabee. I was thinking of adding arginine only to my suplements, not the whole NO-Xplode thing and try it for a few weeks. The schedule thing can be annoying for me as well, since my workout hours are unpredictable and sometimes I just want to head to the basement and get it over with.

[Kevin Larrabee]

Definatly give the arginine a shot and let us know how that goes. I am just confused as to which one was talked about in the earlier post. When i go to bodybuilding.com's store I see L-Arginine and just Arginine. I am guessing just Arginine, but that stuff is expensive!!! $30+ for a bottle. If thats the case I would put the extra cash in and get No-Xplode.

-Kevin

[BFG]

Not gonna start on the whole supps argument as I think I've made my personal views more than too clear :-) but at that price why not try a natural source from your diet: avocado & prawns spring to mind as they are foods I have to avoid as they trigger cold sores in me (source of the problem being L'Arginine) you will get more than enough in there.



Just a thought anyway.

[Ian Kay]

NYG: I wasn't recommending the arginine as a necessary addition. I was experimenting with it because as a trainer and Vitamin World employee (if only part-time) I get asked about NO all the time. Plus, I get a great discount. So it's worth it for me.

I am a believer in supplements. Even so, 2/3 of the stuff out there is utter crap.

Here's what I take:

morning: Vitamin C, B-Complex, Chromium Picolinate, fish oil
30 minutes pre-workout: 3g arginine
15 minutes pre-workout: whey/malto + creatine + glutamine
post workout: whey/malto + creatine + glutamine
with lunch: fish oil
with dinner: fish oil
before bed: ZMA

Sounds like a lot, until you look at what it really is.

Honestly, sounds like your feeling is a symptom of not enough sleep. Is that possible?