How food effects Insulin levels?

[yovwmon]

This post is somewhat general but also contains details on my personal journey to become lean.

Stemming from my post about apples, I feel like I may be getting closer to an answer on how to become lean. I have read several articles containing information on insulin, and how different people respond when exposed to high levels.

In my quest to become lean I have been more unsuccessful than I wish. I have had some serious issues over the last 2 months. I have tracked everything I was eating through fitday, modified my diet in several ways, and worked the RR&D program for 4 straight weeks with NO RESULTS. In addition to RR&D I was also doing at least an additional 20 minutes to half hour of core work a day, plus 20 minutes to a half hour of cardio. My weight has stayed in place ranging from 207.5 to 211.0. Every day I get on the scale in disappointment because I can’t shed the fat.

I have stopped tracking my intake through fitday, I am frustrated, and loosing motivation. When I first started loosing weight last year I didn’t eat any fruit, or sugar, and I stayed away from pretty much all breads, pasta, and potatoes. Throughout the last six months I have incorporated most of these foods back into my diet, although sugar is kept to a minimum, and breads & pastas are all multi grain. The one thing I have turned up quite a bit is my intake of fruit, apples, bananas, & berries. Being that these are natural I didn’t see much harm, and after all, you should get 3-4 servings a day, right?

Back to the insulin thing, I am starting to believe that I am so sensitive to sugar that something as simple as an apple may spike my insulin for and unusual amount of time. Since these spikes tell your body to stop burning fat it seems that any sugar natural or not may be a bad idea for me. Is it possible that consumption of the above could be what’s holding me back?

Am I on to something here?

[gobbla]

So you added the starches and grains back to your diet...while increasing your fruit intake and you're blaiming the fruit for your lack of progress? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

How many servings of vegi's and how much water do you drink a day?

Why all the "extra" core work?

[drs]

Whole grain is the key. Multi-grain can be decieving.

The theories on energy flux that are being proposed are interesting to me (recently published at T-nation). Essentially saying that massive amouts of energy expenditure per day 1-2 hours may be needed.

Beware of "natural is healthy". Sugar is natural. Arsenic is natural.

[yovwmon]

I have been doing the core work for several reasons.
1. Your core is your power plant, the harder you work your core the more efficient your body will become, correct?
2. Although I can’t see my ab’s doing core work makes me feel much tighter, and I can even see a little difference in the mirror.
3. Strength, the one with the strongest core will achieve the highest physical goals, fighting, running, everything.
4. I have been told “focus on the core and everything else will come together”

[BFG]

OK Yov you are making this way too complicated.

You follow a specificaly designed programe that I assume has been designed in symbiosis with a diet
then: you add more work in thus rendering the exact science of the formula into dissaray.

I think it was Mr Schuler said the other day when seeing hoof prints in the snow dont assume its zebras its horses. I thin as we have this info to our disposal nowadays we read too much into things and forrmulate opinions that we feel suit our needs, or indeed our chosen thought path.

As I said on the other thread put up a diet plan and sampl weeks training its more than likely the key error is there than in insulin spikes

[BFG]

[ QUOTE ]
I have been doing the core work for several reasons.
1. Your core is your power plant, the harder you work your core the more efficient your body will become, correct?
2. Although I can’t see my ab’s doing core work makes me feel much tighter, and I can even see a little difference in the mirror.
3. Strength, the one with the strongest core will achieve the highest physical goals, fighting, running, everything.
4. I have been told “focus on the core and everything else will come together”

[/ QUOTE ]

then find a workout based around the core not in addition to it

[Kevin Larrabee]

Check out Core Performance by Make Verstegen. He owns Athlete's Performance where athletes like Curt Schilling and Nomar Garciaparra and Mia Hamm Train. The program is great for building a solid core, increasing flexability and building a overall strong body.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ ct/1594861...5Fencoding=UTF8

Give it a look.

-Kevin

[gobbla]

BFG has it in spades...you have to start at the very, very beginning and make small thought out changes so you can really tell how they're effecting you. Simple first. 90% of your success is going to depend on having the basics down pat. Once you start off the path everything can potentially go to shit. No one is trying to be negative towards you, you're obviously very dedicated and really making an effort. Spending that extra effort on the basics might go further than spending it on the extra's.

If you're doing a program do it till completion, then if you really feel like the program was at fault then mabey add a single excersise or find a complimentary program (like perfect 10) to help.

With your diet you can't really make several changes at once and blaim any single factor. Take what you're doing...do it for 4 weeks, make a little change, do it for 4 weeks, lather\rinse\repeat.

If I remember right you had some really good results with the "fiber blaster" routine. Mabey that style of workout for you would be best. Mabey start there as your baseline and really pay attention to your diet...drink your gallon+ of water a day...make sure that you're eating a respectible vegi portion at every meal and see where you're sitting in a month. Mabey the apples or bread or the combination IS a problem, but you can't say for sure unless you monitor it under a strict set of controls.

[Lost Dog]

I'd like to see some of your days, nutritionally, as well.

Don't jump to the conclusion that it's what you're eating. It may be how much, compared to what you're doing.

Also, what works at a higher body fat percentage, deficit-wise, may not work when leaner or after a long period of time. I lost a lot, pretty steadily, with a 500 calorie deficit. Then it stopped cold. I'm now losing again, but it took a drastic cut to start again.

There are so many variables, it's hard to pinpoint what the issue really is.

That being said, you had good luck without grains and as much fruit. Added them back in and things stopped, right. While it MAY be the grains and fruit, you can look at it from the opposite angle.

Assuming you're still eating the same calories (or close), what did you cut out to squeeze the fruit and grains back into your diet? You're getting less of something, right? Protein, fats, veggies, etc. So, in addition to your additions, what else changed in the diet?

If you cut out 200 cals worth of veggies to eat two slices of whole grain bread or two apples, you might have negative consequences. Calories in vs. calories out do count, but when you're teetering on an edge, a calorie isn't always a calorie.

So, all that too-much-information being said, it COULD be the apples...

[Wazier]

I have a serious interest in this topic. For those of you that do not recognize me, I used to post most frequently in CE forum.

A quick explanation of its relevance is that ten years ago I was diagnosed with a sudden onset of Type II diabetes. While my body fat ratio had varied over time (with respect to the intensity of my fitness routines), I have never been obese, so given the acute appearance and severity of the condition, I have suspected antecedents like genetic factors, exposure to arsenic and other environmental assaults. Immediately after I learned I had the disease, I embarked on a rigorous exercise and diet routine that enabled me to effectively control my blood glucose levels. However, after a debilitating spinal injury six years ago and a failed laminectomy, I have yet to overcome the guardedness that follow serious injuries and essentially lost my ability to moderate blood glucose levels, both through exercise and a diminishing of discipline that sustains healthy habits. Since then I have come to rely entirely on medication to maintain control.

I am just now regaining the resolve to work around the effects of the injury by finding a routine that does not exacerbating the symptoms. My most serious lapse in discipline has been a failure to keep up with the ongoing research into sugar metabolism like what is being discussed in this thread. The best example is the specific topic discussed here; I have not researched the subject of the glycemic index even though it is most relevant to my condition. That is to say I am able to control my fasting and long-term weighted average of blood glucose, but I have chronic problems with high spikes after I eat. Even though my meals are relatively well balanced, I know that I have increased my overall caloric intake over time. Despite the fact that the spikes occured when my overall intake was well controlled, there has not been a significant increase in the spikes. I have just done a search of the forums and found few comments but some helpful links. I am continuing to google the subject and searching databases like Medline - PubMed, but haven’t found good information about my situation.

Some questions. It does not seem like there are any people involved in the discussion that have diabetes even though the participants are knowledgeable on the subject. I would be interested to know if, as can found in many of the JPF forums, resident experts on the topic who would be willing to share insights or provide direction to informative sources.. Also, I would like to know if this topic would generate enough interest to start another thread or perhaps even a new forum for people who are searching for health and fitness information to overcome physical disabilities. If the topic would only generate a few comments, a new forum would not be worth starting. However, the one thing a fitness forum offers that health-only forums do not is the combination of dietary information with highly specific expertise on fitness. An example would be, for those of you who have noticed, Gardener’s involvement in health and fitness after experiencing lung cancer. Like him, I am one of those folks who are of “advanced age,” but not quite as advanced as he is!

I appreciate any comments you may have.

[drs]

Wazier,

There is an abundance of information available if you search on "glycemic index" and "glycemic load".

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here, but honestly you need a very good professional diabetic educator and a dietician who specialized in diabetic counseling. Your insurance may pay for this if you are referred by your doctor.

I wish you lots of luck. My father has diabetes.

[Jean-Paul]

Welcome to the "other side" of the jpfitness forums, Waz. Great to see you venture out of the politics and see what other things we offer in here.

Just some basics to get you started (sorry if you already know some of this): The glycemic index is a scoring table that rates how quickly foods break down into glucose. Foods that break down quickly, like sugar or white bread, get a very high score since they are already in a very simple form. Starches like whole grains from wheat, oats or barley, have a much lower score because they are harder for the body to break down, and therefore take a lot longer to break down, releasing a much more sustaining form of energy.

When you eat foods that have a high score, you consequently get a bigger release of insulin. Obviously for this reason, people like you (type II diabetics) should follow diets that are lower in carbohydrates, particularly refined carbs like what you get in sodas, cakes, cookies.

Although it is not adviseable for me to prescribe diets to total strangers, it can't hurt you to follow a diet like this if you are only controlling your blood sugar with meds. The "sticky" at the top of the nutrition forum has exceptional guidelines to follow for anyone, not just diabetics. It is the core of a yet-unpublished book by Adam Campbell, editor of Mens Health, and Dr Volek. Basically it advises significantly increasing your consumption of veggies, timing your carb meals (not a ketogenic diet), and eliminating refined carb foods altogether. One probable variation in your case would be to skip the advice to sip on a high carb drink during your workout as that may have the opposite effect on you.

Thanks for adding to this topic. Gives us a lot to think about.

[BjsAust]

Multi-Grain is better than white, but that doesnt mean its good for weightloss. Try to get your carbs from veges, not bread and pasta. I think these are more to blame than apples.

Abs are like any other muscle, would you do bicep curls every day and expect good results? They need some time off to recover. Recovery is where the strength/growth comes from, not the work.

RR&D 2 is a routine to maintain muscle size and strength while in a calorie deficit. Its not going to lose weight if the nutrition isnt right, all it does is maintain when the nutrition is right to cut.

Remember, its not two months wasted, its two months spent learning what doesnt work. Keep at it till you find what does work. One constant in JBs articles is he reassesses every couple of weeks. It might take another 2 months to work out whats best for you, but is 4 months learning what works for you really so bad compared to a lifetime of leanness afterwards?

[Kaiser]

Waz, my father has Type II, also not caused by any of the usual causes (his was a freak thing - wearing out insulin response through years of keeping sugar levels up to prevent seizures due to a fixed brain aneurism - long story_ and especially true since he is very lean at 5"11" and 135 lbs. and exercises regularly. He monitors his blood sugar levels and manages it with meds, not insulins shots. I have learned more through his struggles and experiments about insulin levels and blood sugar than I have in all my readings on the subject.

yvmon, I think the apple's fiber may affect the rapidity by which the sugars are absorbed into the bloodstream.

[ QUOTE ]
Although it is not adviseable for me to prescribe diets to total strangers, it can't hurt you to follow a diet like this if you are only controlling your blood sugar with meds.

[/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the laugh JP. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PaulJ]

JP I am asking this to gain insight on this as well.
You mention a diabetic should eat a diet lower in carbohydrates.
My question is this. Isn't a carb just a carb to a diabetic?
Meaning, all carbs turn into glucose in time. In the case of a diabetic would that make a difference seeing how Type 2 diabetics produce very little, or very ineffective insulin?


And no, I am not arguing your point here because I have been following Adam's diet for about 2 months now and my blood sugars went from'out of control' to perfect in less than 3 weeks, so I know it works, and I know why, I just don't know why a diabetic dietician would say it isn't the right diet for a diabetic.

Waz, check out www.mendosa.com for the glycemic index and glycemic load of foods.Also has invaluable amount of links for the diabetic.The GI count doesn’t always hold accurate because of an individuals response to certain foods.

Yovwmon, You state “Am I on to something here?” I can’t see anywhere that you said you are or are not a diabetic.May be time to get that test done. Years of ignoring my diabetis has not helped me one bit.

Although fruit is a ‘healthy’ food, a serving of fruit for a diabetic is basically half of what a non diabetic would eat. Diabetes, Syndrome X or insulin sensitivity could have an affect on a person’s ability to lose or gain weight.

Enough fear mongering for one day……