Creatine, Protein..big difference? - JP Fitness Forums

wannabe · 02-11-2006, 02:53 PM

I was on my throne the other day and I grabbed and older ish of men's health. May 05 to be exact with Usher on the cover. Pg 170 is featuring Dennis Quaid, step 2 says "Maximize your early exercise gains - and minimize pain - with a muscle building supplement like creatine and a recovery aid like glutamine." I lift to get bigger. I normally down a 40gr protein shake immediately after my workout and have a healthy meal within an hr and a half. Would creatine and glutamine do something for me that my whey protein isn't? (is the plan suggesting creatine prior to the workout and glutamanie after?)

Lost Dog · 02-11-2006, 06:18 PM

Glutamine's one of those things that some people say works and some don't.

Creatine's good, though. Just put 5g in that pwo shake. On your off days, just have it with your morning coffee or tea.

Creatine is a proven muscle building supplement and a muscle retaining supp when you're dieting.

Take your creatine.

ZachL · 02-11-2006, 06:53 PM

No need to take creatine, although it is effective. Another thing is, we don't know for sure the long term health effects as it hasn't been studied well enough yet (in the short and medium term it is safe). What happens when you overload on creatine (which comes from red meat) for 10 years pretty much straight? We don't know.

wannabe · 02-11-2006, 08:20 PM

What about the glutamine? The protein is just to help build muscle, it doesn't act as a recovery aid like glutamine, does it?

ZachL · 02-12-2006, 12:07 PM

glutamine is unproven.

Lost Dog · 02-12-2006, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
glutamine is unproven.

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Exactly.

There are studies showing all over the board on glutamine.

Some people swear by it. I'm not going to disprove something that I think is safe, since some people report good gains and effects with it.

Here's a long article for a brief glutamine reference, but it shows that some people (trainers, even) find it useful.

The Superhero Roundtable

Thibaudeau

"My super secret is to use a combo of creatine, BCAA, and glutamine five times per day. At each serving you ingest 5g of each. The BCAA powder should be at least 50% leucine as this is the most anabolic of the three BCAAs. Glutamine has gotten a bad rep, but when used as part of this stack it's effective. I've had clients gain up to eight pounds in two weeks while losing fat by adding this simple strategy."

wannabe · 02-12-2006, 08:33 PM

Interesting article. So would the following be worth a shot for 2 months or so: Creatine prior to lifting, protein shake and glutamine after? Or perhaps it's not even worth the attempt....(if I add creatine and glutamine, it would be in multiple doses, not just around workout time.)

Lost Dog · 02-12-2006, 08:38 PM

I don't know.

I take creatine every day. I've never even priced glutamine to see how much it costs.

If you try it, let us know. I don't think it could hurt anything.

BjsAust · 02-12-2006, 09:04 PM

If you really want to give it a try, I'd do it in such a way you can test it. Get some creatine, use it for a month (post workout seems to be recommended). Monitor results. Then get some glutamine, stop using the creatine and start using the glutamine for a month. Monitor results. Then use both for a month. In 3 months time you'll know what works for you.

Christians statement is that he's had results with clients using that exact stack, not just adding glutamine in. In fact what I infer from his comment is that just adding some glutamine post workout hasnt done much good. It seems to be very personal. If you can be bothered with the time and money to test it then you'll find if its good for you, but I'd recommend doing it in such a way that by the end you know whats working and whats not.

wannabe · 02-13-2006, 01:29 AM

Sounds good. Will report back in 3 months. Thanks for all the advise err'body.

Axis · 02-13-2006, 11:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Get some creatine, use it for a month (post workout seems to be recommended). Monitor results.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good suggestion, but I'd go more than a month with the creatine. With the 5 g/day dose, it will take a few weeks for your muscles to be saturated, and for it to have any noticeable effect. That's why in the past, people would do a loading phase of 20-30 g/day. That practice seems to have fallen out of favor, though, among the gurus and most just recommend the maintenance dose and more patience.

wannabe · 02-13-2006, 12:13 PM

I'm still a little new to the terminology. What's a loading phase?

Axis · 02-13-2006, 01:15 PM

This link gives a good overview of how creatine works.

http://www.absolute-creatine.com/creatine.htm

In simple terms, creatine is stored in your muscles, and is used to recycle energy when you workout, so you can workout longer and harder and end up with bigger muscles.

Your muscles can only hold so much creatine, so you want to maximize it. The current recommendation is to take 5g per day (roughly a teaspoon). Over time the creatine will accumulate in your muscle tissue for use when you workout. Once your muscles are saturated, ~3-5g per day will account for any that you use up over the course of the day, and keep your muscles saturated. This is called a maintenance dose.

In the past, a "loading phase" was recommended, where you would take 20-30g per day for a week or two to get your muscles saturated more quickly, and then switch to the maintenance dose. I think a lot of the negative side effects you hear of are experienced at the loading dosage, so nowadays it's generally recommended that you just start with the maintenance dose. It will take a couple weeks longer for your muscles to be saturated, but you'll probably save some money, and avoid some of the problems associated with the higher dosage.

Ian Kay · 02-14-2006, 08:39 AM

You know, I usually tell people not to worry about the loading phase. It's not necessary. However, just because it's not necessary doesn't mean it's totally bad either. Now while I think 5x5g per day is overkill (I don't think your body can deal with it all), trying 3x5g per day might be a good way to stock up quickly, and thus get an answer sooner. Creatine is so damn cheap these days, why not?

As for glutamine: it's more expensive than creatine, but I use it DAILY, because soreness, aches and pains have diminished greatly since I started using it. No "overtraining" effects either. (I don't mean you can over-train and get away with it; I mean that before I'd get that worn-out feeling just from my normal lifting/work schedule, and now I don't.)

I use 5g glutamine and 3g creatine in my pre- AND post- shakes. Just one serving of each on my off-days.

wannabe · 03-17-2006, 02:33 PM

Ok, so I've been using creatine and glutamine for just over 2 weeks now, I know it's still too soon to see any real benefits, but I just wanted to share that I've done more research regarding glutamine. I'm not a professional, this is just my opinion....but it seems that a recovery agent like glutamine is not ideal for me. I work every muscle group only once a week. I have a full week to recover. So I probably won't ever see the benefits of glutamine. I thinks it's more for people who train the same muscle group a few times a week. (Like maybe a runner who trains everyday or every other day) It would probably be good for them since they need to recover faster, as to where I have a whole week. That's just how I feel after doing my own personal research, just thought I would share. I will finish out the glutamine since I did spend my hard earned unemployment money on it.

Faraz421 · 03-18-2006, 12:22 AM

Creatine works, its not neccessary, but it certainly helps.

As for glutamine, its more towads the argument with supplementing with particular amino acids directly. Leucine is recieving hype currently, as glutamine hype has died down... True some amino acid's posit different potential benefits than others, but the diet/supplementation should be geared towards making sure all amino acids are accounted for/supplied in a healthy nutritional plan. Some may be promoted around workout windows,... my answer to all of this has been ON 100%Whey. Its got a blend of BCAAs in it, and recent studies (cant find the articles) referenced ON 100% whey as having a proper proportion of them, which makes me as a consumer happy.

my .02 cents on the subject.

Kelvan · 03-26-2006, 01:41 PM

Creatine is proven to be safe and effective. True there haven't been extremely long term health risk assessments done yet, but many professional athletes have been on creatine for 10+ years with no linked health problems as of yet. This makes it pretty safe for the guy who wants to try it out for a few months, or even those of us who've been on it for a year or longer. I've been trying glutamine for the last 3 weeks and honestly I don't notice anything, but again that's just my experience.

Totally off topic, but Wannabe, why do you only work each muscle group 1x per week?

wannabe · 03-27-2006, 01:27 PM

I do once a week for timing only. I don't have to rush and I can hit everything the way it should be hit.
Monday - chest
Tuesday - back
Wednesday - abs, legs
Thursday - Delts, tris
Friday - bicep
sat & sun are my sabbaths.
I use to hit chest and back twice a week, but after sometime, I stoppped progressing and it left me too wiped to work out anything else that day. Since changing to that schedule:
Chestpress went from 175 max to 225max
lat pulldowns went from 120 to 160
this is my first time doing legs and abs
shoulder presses went from 45 to 55.
tricep dips went from 3 sets of 10 (bodyweight) to 4 sets of 12 with a 30lb dumbell between my legs.
I don't do cardio becasue I'm bulking. I've gained 10lbs since the new routine. (November)
It's just worked for me since I started it. After I hit a major muscle group I was too tired to work my smaller ones. I'm interested in hearing what everyone else does.