Flame Out super fish oil/CLA - JP Fitness Forums

bushDocda · 02-06-2006, 11:31 AM

I don’t have the time spent at tmag under my belt to know all the history with them and CLA and but I guess seem to have changed there tune with the new product Flameout.

I am not a scientist so a lot of there techy explanations are lost on me, but I do know I take a lot of fish oil and I love the idea of a high quality and potency fish oil. So I will order some from them when I finish up what I have.

There marketing machine is either embraced or hated so its become impossible to discuss anything that comes out of their lab/site, but lets try…

So who is going to give this a chance and what other stuff do you get from them etc…
Thanks
Scott

OldGuy · 02-06-2006, 12:23 PM

Looks interesting. I paid $15 for 100 fish oil caps, but no where close to that dosage. The CLA is really a nothing: I've read you need to have a much larger dosage than they're offering for it to be effective.

Here's the link to the article.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do...ydra?id=910074

bushDocda · 02-06-2006, 12:45 PM

Good to see upon rereading my post that i used the wrong their/there twice.

getgot211 · 02-06-2006, 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flame Out:
$25/bottle for 90 caps
$.28 cents per cap
550mg DHA/220mg EPA per cap
Per cap, it is 28.6% EPA and 71.4% DHA
$.08 of each cap goes to EPA
$.20 of each cap goes to DHA
... $.36 per 1g DHA
... $.36 per 1g EPA

Compared to Sam's Club Fish Oil

$7/bottle for 300 caps
$.02 cents per cap
120mg DHA/180mg EPA per cap
Per cap, it is 60.0% EPA and 40.0% DHA
$.012 of each cap goes to EPA
$.008 of each cap goes to DHA
... $.067 per 1g DHA
... $.067 per 1g EPA

[/ QUOTE ]

how much more potent is it? the same people pimping the hell out of this recommend ~6 sam's club brand but now 4 of these....so a whopping 2 less pills.

Lost Dog · 02-06-2006, 01:30 PM

I think it looks like a good product. I'd agree with OG on the CLA. It's not going to hurt, but I don't know that it will help, either.

The best thing about it is the number that you take compared to fish oil from the store. The get the same amount of EPA/DHA that I get in my 20 (yes, 20) CostCo caps, I'd only have to take 8. In a couple of posts, they say it takes only 4 of their caps to equal 20 normal caps, but my math says 8... I suppose they're comparing it to some really cheesy caps from the 99 Cent Store, huh? Bottom line, figure out how much combined EPA/DHA you want to get every day and do your own math. I want 6g combined. I take 20 CostCo caps. Looks like 8 of these would do it, but at $2.26 per day, compared to $.45 per day with the ones I take now.

These are highly purified caps, so those that are concerned about getting impurities from fish oil should be pleased. There are a few sources for medical grade fish oil (from the Zone Diet folks and others), out there, but they are more expensive than the BioTest ones, I think.

Granted you're paying a premium to be able to get more with less, but the purity's a factor, too.

getgot211 · 02-06-2006, 01:45 PM

http://www.consumerlab.com/results/omega3.asp

from 41 tested

"But two Omega-3 products failed ConsumerLab.com tests. One didn't contain its labeled amounts. One was spoiled. However, none of the products were contaminated with mercury or PCBs— unlike some popular types of fish."

Canadian_Bacon · 02-06-2006, 03:29 PM

Lost Dog, imho this product is stupid.

#1 CLA has been shown to do pretty much nothing in humans at MUCH higher doses. That little amount will do nothing except give them a reason to charge more for it.

#2 They give no lab results showing that their product is any more pure then anyone elses. Why do people just believe them on word of mouth that their stuff is super pure and everyone elses is crap? Bunch of marketing hype if you ask me.

If you really care about purity you can get a product from Carlons that has almost as much EPA/DHA for LESS money. The Carlsons product is produced in a FDA inspected fascility and is tested extensively for PCBs, Mercury, and other contaminants using international standards and they will supply lab results upon request.

bushDocda · 02-06-2006, 04:07 PM

CB-
Is this the Carlson's you are referring to?
http://www.naturalpharmacy.com/suppl...n-fish-oil-100

What about the claim of the DHA to EPA ratio being more conducive to the types of benefits we are used to hearing about fish oil? (referring to the Flameout product)

I have never bought anything from them. I agree the marketing is a lot sometimes and that they write their products into the contributor's pieces over there, but if the contributors with access to the best use their stuff, that tells me something. Unless they really don't but then someone would try and tell me that Al Gore didn't invent the interweb...

As far as the lab study/results thing, are you saying they don't have a study supporting the DHA to EPA ratio claim and thus it is base-less?

One thing is clear, i am almost out of fish oil and need to buy more from somewhere.

Canadian_Bacon · 02-06-2006, 04:16 PM

Yes, that is it.

The DHA to EPA claim is not really concretely supported by research. Some studies have shown actually that a high DHA:EPA ratio may worsen some mental disorders. Though I dont find the research that conclusive. Basically, EPA is a precursor to DHA so it is probably equally as important. Getting a little more DHA wont do anything special IMHO.

On the lab results thing: Biotest goes around telling their readers everyone elses product is poor quality, polluted, crap. They dont give ANY PROOF however that their products are as high quality as they say they are. More then a few companies(like Carlsons) get their products tested by 3rd party organizatons to insure they meet their label claims.

That is my problem w/ biotest. They talk a lot of trash but they dont back it up w/ the independent lab results like other companies. If I can pay LESS for a product that has been TESTED as pure why would I pay more for something based only on verbal claims that they are of 'superior quality'?

Lost Dog · 02-06-2006, 04:53 PM

I'd be curious what EPA/DHA ratio is in actual fish. I'm assuming that it's closer to the "normal" capsules, since it not manipulated.

Since I'm only taking the fish oil because I'm not going to eat enough fish, I might as well mimic that ratio. Granted, Mother Nature doesn't always set the perfect table, but I'll eat what she serves, none-the-less.

Lost Dog · 02-06-2006, 04:56 PM

In case it not clear. I'm sticking with CostCo. Should I decide to take my extra $60 and send it to BioTest, I'd be more likely to buy something that I can't effectively pick apart. That way, I'd at least be able to take advantage of the placebo effect...

BjsAust · 02-06-2006, 05:54 PM

So if I can find a product here that has a DHA/EPA ratio similar to flameout, but costs more, is there benefit to that over just getting normal fishoil (with standard ratio)?

i.e, this stuff has 180mg EPA/120mg DHA http://www.gnc.com/product/ind ex.jsp?pro...rentPage=family

and this stuff has 100mg EPA/250mg DHA http://www.gnc.com/product/ind ex.jsp?pro...rentPage=family

but costs about 50% more for 30% less capsules.

Canadian_Bacon · 02-06-2006, 06:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be curious what EPA/DHA ratio is in actual fish. I'm assuming that it's closer to the "normal" capsules, since it not manipulated.

Since I'm only taking the fish oil because I'm not going to eat enough fish, I might as well mimic that ratio. Granted, Mother Nature doesn't always set the perfect table, but I'll eat what she serves, none-the-less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tuna Oil is higher in DHA then EPA. Most other fish(Salmon, Mackeral, Herring) have more EPA than DHA.

gobbla · 02-07-2006, 03:19 AM

I personally shy away from anything that has "flame" "flamer" "flaming" in the title.

ernie · 02-07-2006, 06:46 AM

I have to agree with gobbla..anything worth having or taking doesn't need the "Billy Mays" hype. Makes you wonder who their audience is suppose to be.

Johnka · 02-15-2006, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lost Dog, imho this product is stupid.

#1 CLA has been shown to do pretty much nothing in humans at MUCH higher doses. That little amount will do nothing except give them a reason to charge more for it.

#2 They give no lab results showing that their product is any more pure then anyone elses. Why do people just believe them on word of mouth that their stuff is super pure and everyone elses is crap? Bunch of marketing hype if you ask me.

If you really care about purity you can get a product from Carlons that has almost as much EPA/DHA for LESS money. The Carlsons product is produced in a FDA inspected fascility and is tested extensively for PCBs, Mercury, and other contaminants using international standards and they will supply lab results upon request.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a quote from TC:

[ QUOTE ]
Here's some more info about the process that should reassure you:

At the time of harvest, the species and grade of raw material (fish) that will yield the optimal level of EPA & DHA in our finished products is actively selected.

Extraction: Removes raw oil from the fish.

Winterization: Removes saturated fats present in the raw oil, leaving a clear-coloured oil with more long-chain fatty acids and no saturated fat.

Deodorization: Removes heavy metals, PCBs and other unwanted elements for cleaner, scent-free oil with no aftertaste.

Molecular distillation: Completely refines the oil and ensures removal of man-made pollutants such as PCBs in both standard and concentrated oils.

Completion: The result is the purest Omega-3 fish oil on the market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Johnka · 02-15-2006, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flame Out:
$25/bottle for 90 caps
$.28 cents per cap
550mg DHA/220mg EPA per cap
Per cap, it is 28.6% EPA and 71.4% DHA
$.08 of each cap goes to EPA
$.20 of each cap goes to DHA
... $.36 per 1g DHA
... $.36 per 1g EPA

Compared to Sam's Club Fish Oil

$7/bottle for 300 caps
$.02 cents per cap
120mg DHA/180mg EPA per cap
Per cap, it is 60.0% EPA and 40.0% DHA
$.012 of each cap goes to EPA
$.008 of each cap goes to DHA
... $.067 per 1g DHA
... $.067 per 1g EPA

[/ QUOTE ]

how much more potent is it? the same people pimping the hell out of this recommend ~6 sam's club brand but now 4 of these....so a whopping 2 less pills.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you missed the point, which is that gram per gram of the important fatty acids, Flamout is cheaper than sam's club fish oil caps. It's actually 8 times more potent for DHA than regular fish oil caps.

Johnka · 02-15-2006, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The DHA to EPA claim is not really concretely supported by research. Some studies have shown actually that a high DHA:EPA ratio may worsen some mental disorders. Though I dont find the research that conclusive.

[/ QUOTE ]

CB, could you give me a reference for this study? Everything that I've read places the value on DHA over EPA.

cappuccino · 02-16-2006, 09:11 PM

Interesting topic, I've been wondering the same thing myself. I think the purity of the product is important.

I've been taking these, and they are more concentrated than the ones from sam's club (and more costly), but I only do two a day:

www.nordicnaturals.com

[image] http://www.nordicnaturals.com/images...er.gif?view=77 [/image]
650mg DHA and 450mg EPA

the websiste has some interesting info too...not sure if it's more marketing than science, though