Still don't have my optimal summer riding season program set up.
-I have done seasons where I still lift legs 2X/week and ride. Legs burn out - too much volume for me.
-I have done a season where I lifted 1X/week and rode. Legs tired - too much work for me.
-I have done seasons where I only worked Hamstrings and VMO (using peterson step ups) - some success, but legs still tired on rides.
My volume of riding is going to stay the same as last season (3X/week) where I hardly lifted at all (legs or upper body) and had a great riding season. Obviously, my first priority during riding season is having good strong rides.
What do all of you who normally lift (and ride a decent amount) do for your legs during riding season? I am thinking that I will go solely with an upper body program (the rings, IMO, are a great base to do this with - low volume, high difficulty) of rings 2X/week and something for shoulders (hang cleans or push presses) 1X/week if possible; I would also be doing Bill's mobility work 3X/work. Leave the legs for riding only. Want to hear everyone's thoughts on the subject - this is probably one of the few forum where we have serious riders who are also serious lifters.
Up until now I've been doing legs 2x week, deads on Tuesday and squats on Thursday, with various upper body work MWF. Today was only my second commute of the season, but it looks like maybe riding weather is finally here. From here on out it's upper body only, no extra leg work at all. With hiking, biking and horseback riding my legs get plenty of work in the summer. I'll start working legs again in Nov/Dec when I can't commute anymore.
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759
My volume of riding is going to stay the same as last season (3X/week) where I hardly lifted at all (legs or upper body) and had a great riding season. Obviously, my first priority during riding season is having good strong rides.
Not that you want to take advice from me (I do nothing except ride), but if you had a great riding season without lifting, why lift?
what sort of rep ranges were you doing when you lifted?
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
Aaron - because when riding season is over, I can see that my explosive power is shot to hell. Which sucks for basketball or football season. Yeah... I know I need to prioritize my seasons and pick either endurance or explosiveness.
Og - It was normal periodization on a 6 week schedule (except for the step ups, which were always higher rep ranges since they not only hit the VMOs, but also the vastus lateralis, which I didn't really want to overwork because of the riding.
Location: Philly on one side, Pittsburgh on another, the Green Between...
Posts: 5,857
Great question, K/Q.
It seems to me, Bill Hartman might advocate low reps high weight on off days. We talked about this at the Retreat a couple of years ago. His take, on a similar issue, as I recall: squats and deads on consecutive days were okay, as long as one was high rep low weight (endurance) and one was higher weight lower reps (power). It calls different aspects of the muscles (fast v. slow twitch?) into use. Couldn't cycling qualify as your slow twitch, high rep, endurance work? I honestly don't know.
I'd like to get his input on this...I'll post a link to this thread so Bill can address it with all of his free time. Lou would probably have some good thoughts on this as well....
K - my training schedule is much different than what you'd be doing, but I will add some light bodyweight work probably twice a week to try and maintain any sort of muscle mass that I can. Now will that keep the explosiveness? Nope. But I think it's fun to switch gears once the weather turns and hit the gym for the winter. Sorry I can't be of much help, but I'll be paying attention here!
I would go real heavy a few time a week with low volume. And as the season progress, maybe test adding slightly more volume. I am thinking 3 sets of 3 squats and deadlifts(different days) to start and testing up to 6 sets of 3 depending on how you feel the weight lifting is affecting you. 9 total reps once or twice a week should not slow you down too much. I treat cleans and, to a degree, push presses as much a hip dominant exercise as anything; but if you can do those without negative impact on your riding, I think they are an awesome choice. I would also do some light unilateral work, 1 leg RDLs and some sort of split squat. I don't know a lot about cycling, but I also think that I would try to make sure that I did enough to keep my lower back strength in proportion to my legs. You don't want any deficiencies coming out of the season.
How dare you blame the all mighty strength training for your dilemma!!
Seriously, consider all factors when dealing with fatigue issues. Work, family, diet, sleep, the family dog's regular bowel movements, AND training.
I'm wondering if you had a stressful day at the empire (business), fought with the wife over something useless, missed 2 hours of your required 5 hours a night that you would alter your cycling schedule even if you should based on those factors because that would be your current training priority. Of all those factors, training is the one you can control more, right. So consider adjustments in all your training that may be necessary to achieve the desired goal (health, structure/balance, performance, etc.)
I don't think that avoiding lower extremity strength training in favor of just cycling is a great answer. Any activity done exclusively results in specific adaptations. Some desireable such as improve cycling performance. Some undesireable, like quad dominance, stiff hip flexors, weak glutes, and kyphosis.
First, really examine your cycling program. Are you simply out to ride or are you monitoring intensity, duration, type of ride, etc. in a progressive manner. If you're really programming and adjusting, then I think there's a way to address strength issues.
If cycling is primary, on higher intensity days that seem to be more fatiguing, a brief, low volume strength training session that addresses potential weakness may be a good idea. You're not going to set personal strength records but maintaining strength, hip adductor/abductor balance, glute function supports your performance on the bike (even in an endurance training situation) AND your orthopedic health.
You'll find a way. Start with minimal volume of strength training and progress forward until a comfortable balance is achieved.
It may end up being as simple as glute activation, deadlift 1-2 x 3-5, side lunge 1-2 x 6-8, and glute/ham work on a swiss ball.
Bill
P.S. Maybe your upper body workouts are too strenuous?
Man I've been waiting all day for this answer in the Advanced Training Forum...and then in Bill's forum....
And now I find he answered at like 2! hahahhaha
Way to pay attention!
Og.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
the family dog's regular bowel movements, AND training.
See, that's why Bill gets paid the big bucks. He takes in the macro view.
Kaiser, I bet your pet has been drinking too much Zafi!
Seriously, great thread. Gives me some ideas for working on training protocols for people that primarily surf.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Bill, thank you very much. I will start with your recommendations and see what happens.
In answer to your (I know, they are rhetorical and for me to reflect) questions, I am like Lance Armstrong in my attention to detail. I track my sleep hours every day, weight, and last summer started following a plan for my rides that does indeed progress and keeps track of everything. I am very lucky in that I lead a low stress life.
Upper body workouts are definitely not too much during the riding season.
'Almost to end of serious season' update for anyone who give a hoot: while I fully intended to follow Bill's advice, I never actually got around to it. I did follow his stretching/mobility protocol though (well, most of the time). Initially, I did 2 upper body workouts for maintenance and rode (no lifting for the legs) and I have dropped the upper body workouts the last 3 weeks. My results? I am having the best riding season ever - am continually getting stronger and faster. Of course, it could have to do with making sure I train properly and with purpose (no 2 hard riding days in a row) and with the fact that I made a conscious effort to eat more carbs during this riding seaon, and also take care of recovery (with stretching, massages, and amino acid supplementation after rides). Whatever it was (or whatever combination), it worked. I'm riding faster and harder than before and feel much less spent after the effort than in years past.
Finally, I just had my Resting Metabolic Rate tested today. In the past, I have had it tested in the dead of winter, but I wanted to know what it was during riding season and if it was higher. It was a full 210-280 kcals per day higher than off-season! To put that into perspective, today's reading was 20% higher than it was when I took it in January! We all know cycling promotes higher metabolic rates - here's proof (and also proof of something I knew from looking at my weight data for the last 5 years - when cycling season winds down in September, I have a gradual weight gain from Sept through December ---> meaning I need to lower my kcals when I stop riding).
General: during off season, pretty clean usual macros of 40/30/30. During riding season, I take down the protein and add in more carbs due to glycogen needs.
Pre ride: since most of my group rides are in the morning, I have a typical breakfast about an hour before a ride: oatmeal (slow cook type) with protein powder and a banana or an apple.
During ride: varies by distance. Rides less than 90 mins, nothing but water, or a mix of 50:50 water:my energy drink (low carb, low-cal version). Rides > 90 mins, a 50:50 mix of water:my energy drink (high calorie, full carb) and water first hour, second hour nibble on a bar and water, third hour and beyond, take a gel or more bar and water or the energy drink: water mix above.
Post ride: Amino Vital (usually Pro, but sometimes just the powder) BCAAs, protein powder and a banana/apple followed by a full 'clean' meal. On very long rides (3+ hours saddle time), I will add a simple carb (sugar) to the protein shake, or even take a simple carb by itself first if it was a very taxing ride.
In the past, I used the Accelerade during ride/Endurox post-ride combo, but found this year's mix to work better and create no gastric issues. Also, using the Homedics massager on the legs for a good 10-15 mins after a longer ride has really seemed to help with recovery. I was given that tip by our club manager and it has defeinitely made my legs feel recovered quicker.
1 hour or less - water (depending on temp, 2 waters, one for drinks, one for Floyding)
1-3 hours - 1 water, 1 Gatorade Endurance or Hammer HEED, 1 Gel (just in case)
3+ hours - 1 water, 1 Gatorade Endurance or Hammer HEED, 1 Gel, 1 Clif Bar
1 cold beer after all of the above.
E
__________________
"It's what you've got inside that matters. The details and technological things will take you only so far. You still have to pedal the bike. Some people are always looking for the magic secret. There's no secret. Just bust your ass." -Dave Zabriskie
I'll usually go in the 10-12 range, but I mix my workouts up a lot. I usually get one solid weight session in a week during the summer (plus at least one yoga class, which works strength more than you think). Some weeks, I'll lift heavy, but most of the time during the season, I'll go to the 10-12 range...
E
__________________
"It's what you've got inside that matters. The details and technological things will take you only so far. You still have to pedal the bike. Some people are always looking for the magic secret. There's no secret. Just bust your ass." -Dave Zabriskie
Lifting Legs and Riding Season
Linear Mode
