I don't really care about the political persuasion of the idiots who get carried away at these public meetings with Congresspeople. I hope they have a good time while they are screaming and yelling. It's a funny thing, but it's illegal to threaten a public official in the performance of his or her duties. It's a federal offense. The really funny part is that the threat is interpreted by the receiver not by the intent of the person issuing the threat. So when the secret service comes to visit them several days after the meetings, they will get the punch line.
Well, given the propensity of some of those who behave in the manner you describe to indulge in all sorts of wild conspiracy theories related to Obama, I would gather that the visits from the Secret Service will be used as a propaganda tool to promote the belief that Obama is instituting a police state....
the Secret Service will be used as a propaganda tool to promote the belief that Obama is instituting a police state
It's all a self-perpetuating loop anyway, right? The ones who go off the deep end believe their way of life is threatened by healthcare reform. So they make threats, and when the government responds to those threats, it reinforces their belief that they were right to feel threatened in the first place.
The number of threats has been small, but makes news. And, I agree, these people will use whatever response as proof they were right. But, like it or not, there are a lot of people that see health care reform being rushed through with not a lot of thought. It's an idea whose time has come, but to expect everybody to jump on a trillion dollar bandwagon is not realistic. I would be more worried if there were no dissent, frankly.
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It's an idea whose time has come, but to expect everybody to jump on a trillion dollar bandwagon is not realistic. I would be more worried if there were no dissent, frankly.
John, I agree. I think people on both sides are highly skeptical right now.
Jon Stewart made fun of Democrats who can't articulate what they're proposing, but I think there's a good reason for that. Some big issues appear to have been settled (to the chagrin of progressives, who are upset over rumored concessions to the insurance and pharm industries), but no one can say what's going to be in the final bill because there is no final bill, and anyone who says they know what's in it is either guessing or bloviating.
First the House has to reconcile four or five different bills coming out of different committees, then the Senate has to pass one, and then the real bill will come out of the House-Senate conference committee. And if it sucks the president might not sign it -- it's a long shot, but you never know.
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But, like it or not, there are a lot of people that see health care reform being rushed through with not a lot of thought.
I understand that's the perception, but in reality, is this different from any other bill? Of course the people who want to pass it have to create an atmosphere of urgency -- that's because they know it's the only way to get people to the table to work out the details. And of course Democrats running for reelection in 2010 need some kind of bill to prove to their constituents that they showed up for work in 2009.
But, thinking back to major legislation that came out in the past quarter-century, is there anything that didn't feel rushed? How else does anything get done in Washington? Ideas percolate in the think tanks and op-ed pages for years, if not decades, and then all of a sudden we have half a legislative session to make all the big decisions.
Good points John and Lou. My local NPR station just had a program (To The Point) featuring prominent members of the religious left and right (can't remember their names), and both side were skeptical. But in radically different ways.
The guy from the "left" spoke on how the policy makers should think more carefully about a health care system that better addresses the needs of the poor and everyone else that can't afford decent care, and not give in to industry lobbyists.
The guy on the right went right into a rant about how this is a plot to tear the country apart and turn it into a Socialist hell.
Obviously no intelligent debate is going to come about when a lot of what we hear from one side in the media is not based in anything resembling reality.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
I don't have a problem with people expressing their frustration with the system and with the politicians who populate it. I think debate is healthy and that there is a function to venting frustration to our elected officials. They need to know that people will try to vote them out of office based on their actions.
I have a problem with assclowns of either ilk ginning up people who have reasoning skills that can charitably considered impaired. Then they and the media pretend that these folks have come to some sort of genuine concern regarding something other than "R" and "D". The media and the spinners then pretend these inarticulate threats are some sort of considered rational position. However, some of these folks only understand violence and threats and that is what they communicate. They need to understand that when you voice or demonstrate a threat to a government official in the performance of their duties, you have committed a crime. It doesn't matter if you did not intend to carry out the threat. It doesn't matter if you believe no one could take you seriously. If the threat is colorable, you have committed a crime and it is a crime that causes people to frequently end up in prison.
Democrats have been working at universal medical care since the 40s. The Republicans have almost always been opposed. It has been thought about, considered, debated, lied about and some of us think it is time for action.
ps - anyone here unhappy that Wall Street did not get FICA in the form of whatever individual accounts Bush was trying to call it?
I think the bottom line is, people do not trust the process and the people in it. And they for sure don't believe that this can be done without costing the average citizen a LOT in one form or another.
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