In a recent thread someone mentioned that this forum was dominated by atheists. I acknowledge that we seem to have our share of non-Christians, but I am curious if that is accurate. It may be, but my current theory (which may be proven wrong with this informal non-scientific poll) is that there are fewer, but they are simply "squeaky wheels" so they get more oil.
I don't know if the overall population of the forum is atheist, but I am pretty sure that the CE forum is mostly inhabited by atheists, or at least, non-christians.
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Where is secular or scientific humanism??? I guess I shouldn't have been so quick to click ATHEIST (insert GASP icon) and perhaps should have considered "other."
I can edit the poll and you can put "other", which would capture those. Although secular could also be agnostic. For that matter, I even know secular Jews and Christians.
I don't know how the poll's going to turn out, but it might just be a squeaky-wheel thing. I'm swamped with work so I can't participate in the Kathy Griffin thread to begin with, but suffice to say I don't remember anyone on CE saying that Madalyn Murray O'Hair can 'suck it' and trying to defend it as humorous wit.
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Tasinque, I am referring specifically to the CE forum, not the all the forums.
Your tone seems to indicate your opinion as an insult. Not sure if this was your intent, but it is hard to be offended when it is at least true in my case.
I don't know if your statement is accurate. Either way, we will have a good idea after we get more votes, which is why I wanted to do this poll.
FYI, I set this up as a private poll, so you everyone can answer honestly without having to publicly announce their private beliefs.
Raised a Catholic, seriously hard-core anti organized religion agnostic at this point. I'd look seriously at the belief system that Shark mentioned in another thread (I forget the name of it now, a Mother Earth thing) but it sounded almost too organized. If I had to choose anything it would be probably be Vonnegut's "Chuch of God Utterly Indifferent". I think that whatever you choose to call "God" just plain doesn't give a shit what we do in this world. Christianity teaches that the sole point of life is to get to heaven and be with "Jesus" forever and ever. But if you break these TEN RULES you'll burn in hell forever and ever. Unless you confess and say some Hail Marys and Our Fathers before you die. (Disclaimer: if you really fucked up bad you might have to do a Station Of The Cross or two, also. But that's one of those Catholic things.) I don't believe in heaven or hell or an afterlife. Life begins when you take your first breath and ends with your last. Greetings!!!
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Tasinque, I am referring specifically to the CE forum, not the all the forums.
Your tone seems to indicate your opinion as an insult. Not sure if this was your intent, but it is hard to be offended when it is at least true in my case.
I don't know if your statement is accurate. Either way, we will have a good idea after we get more votes, which is why I wanted to do this poll.
FYI, I set this up as a private poll, so you everyone can answer honestly without having to publicly announce their private beliefs.
Wasn't meant as an insult, just an observation, since anything thread that has a hint of religion or christianity in it is thrown to the fire by a majority of CE forum participants, from what I have seen.
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Wasn't meant as an insult, just an observation, since anything thread that has a hint of religion or christianity in it is thrown to the fire by a majority of CE forum participants, from what I have seen.
That could be due to the fact that some here like to wear their Christianity on their sleeve, and to take any disagreement as a personal affront and a direct insult to their beliefs.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin, 1759
I selected "agnostic" even though I have been attending my wife's Methodist church regularly for a few months (for the first time in my life - I did not attend church as a child). I do like the church and have always liked the people. I find them to be very charitable, and the church provides a good focus for morals. I get the philosophy, even if I am completely lost over how people accept the literal aspects. I find the sermons to be repetitive - just the same general concepts over and over and over. Jesus died for your sins, all people are sinners and have to be saved by Jesus, try to act as much like Jesus as possible even though you aren't really capable of achieving that level of moral perfection. The end. But while I find it redundant, obviously many people enjoy it and take comfort in it. I love the choir, but I loathe most hymns, which all sound identical and monotone. The only ones I like are old recognizable ones like "Rock of Ages." Overall, I find it a good family experience, though.
That could be due to the fact that some here like to wear their Christianity on their sleeve, and to take any disagreement as a personal affront and a direct insult to their beliefs.
In all honesty, I would say that the Christians who post in CE tend to be pretty calm in responding to the challenges frequently made to their beliefs. They hold their beliefs deeply and none here are 'preachy'. My impression that they are all honest people who really want to use the belief system to help better mankind. None are proposing crusades or mass conversions. None are condemning the non-Christians to Hell.
It doesn't seem to me that any take disagreement as a personal affront; much of what they have objected to has been the belittlement (e.g., some of shark's comments) and even the occasional vilification (e.g., the frequent implications that every Christian is a Dominionist who gives thanks to God and James Dobson upon awakening each morning) of their beliefs.
I'm not a religious man; I'm a secular Jew whose strong attachment is to his culture, not to dogma. But I'm on the side of Christians in this case. I really do think that they get lumped as the 'unenlightened' too often in CE.
That could be due to the fact that some here like to wear their Christianity on their sleeve, and to take any disagreement as a personal affront and a direct insult to their beliefs.
And yet many on this forum also use their negative personal experiences with religion to disparage, dismiss, or otherwise deny the validity and importance of religion in society and others. It could be said, also, that many also wear their atheism on their sleeve. The anti-religion bias of this CE forum is very evident, but of course, those who are atheist or agnostic would probably disagree.
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But I'm on the side of Christians in this case. I really do think that they get lumped as the 'unenlightened' too often in CE.
I think when you are agnostic or atheist, it is easy to have kneejerk negative opinions about religion and focus on the negative elements. I've been trying to focus more on the positive aspects. I know the people at my wife's church are far more engaged in positive, charitable activities than in judgmental negativity. Churches do provide a focus for being a "good person," even if many of the values (to me) just seem like common human decency and based on human empathy and are not really different from the values of any decent human being (whether secular or non-secular).
I think when you are agnostic or atheist, it is easy to have kneejerk negative opinions about religion and focus on the negative elements. I've been trying to focus more on the positive aspects. I know the people at my wife's church are far more engaged in positive, charitable activities than in judgmental negativity. Churches do provide a focus for being a "good person," even if many of the values (to me) just seem like common human decency and based on human empathy and are not really different from the values of any decent human being (whether secular or non-secular).
I agree with you, Dave. I would add that the cultural aspects of Judaism which continue to appeal to me as I get older are largely related to to cementing a close bond with my family (including extended family) and developing connection to my community at large. I don't believe in any notion of being God's chosen people, but I certainly do believe in a tradition of generosity to charitable causes.
I can edit the poll and you can put "other", which would capture those. Although secular could also be agnostic. For that matter, I even know secular Jews and Christians.
Since I don't have religious beliefs, I don't feel the need to define myself in a religious context. That doesn't make much sense to me. I do believe that we should live life in a manner that minimizes harm (physical as well as in other ways) to others and, if possible, help others in life if and when we can when they need help. Hence, the leaning toward the label of secular humanism. However, I think these labels add to the divisiveness rather than cohesiveness or unity. Simply behaving in an accepting and compassionate way would be enough for me which people of different religious beliefs could do and, I think in most cases, are supposed to do.
Yes, since I already jumped in, I'd prefer "other" but I'd rather not wear my lack of beliefs on my sleeve as was said about some Christians. While I agree with that comment, I don't judge others for what they believe... until their beliefs start to restrict my ability to believe and live as I choose.
I know the people at my wife's church are far more engaged in positive, charitable activities than in judgmental negativity.
I was writing my post while these last few showed up but I agree with several comments that have been made. I've gone to church many times over the years and took our kids to church for the experience. However, we always chose very accepting congregations, not judgemental ones, because it's being a part of this kind of community that is most appealing to me. My brother refuses to take communion because he feels it's hypocritical. I have done it at times, if it's important to someone else (like being in their wedding), because it means nothing religious to me so what's the harm?
Anyway, I understand the sentiments about being connected to others via religious trappings when the connections, themselves, are the truly important part of the whole thing.
I should probably clarify about my post that I've personally been guilty of kneejerk negativity toward religion many times. Not trying to climb up on a high horse - this is something I have been personally working on. There are still things that make my head want to explode - usually related to dismissal of science or judgementalism (if that's a word).
I find myself in a strange position -- my family was born and raised Catholic, my wife and her family all raised Jewish, and me, I never had the real desire for religion. I don't hate religion, I just don't find it interesting; religious history on the other hand I enjoy, especially warfare such as the Crusades.
I guess I am strange, I still remember being a boy singing in church all the while my mind was wanting to go home and build my Neaderthal models.
Jim~
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Well, it would seem based on preliminary polling data that these forums are, in fact, dominated by Christians.... not what I expected to see, being one of the four atheists that have clicked THAT particular box to date.
Well, it would seem based on preliminary polling data that these forums are, in fact, dominated by Christians.... not what I expected to see, being one of the four atheists that have clicked THAT particular box to date.
Very interesting.
I'll tell you that I find that fascinating myself, Tina! I think it would be fascinating to see some stats on how many individuals post here regularly...although I am not even sure that I would be counted in that number? haha Maybe it's just because the Christians are all riled up right now and the others will chime in soon.
Another thing that I would be interested in is making an intellectual challenge, we have had great success in the physical challenges that we've started and participated in. One idea that I came up with was making book lists that helped you get where you are spiritually...and the challenge would be choosing a book off of someone elses list (bonus points for chosing something from an opposing viewpoint, for example I would get NO bonus for choosing something from Mahler's list, but JP's list WOULD earn me bonus points) and reading it so that we could broaden our minds and find out more about each other.
Well, it would seem based on preliminary polling data that these forums are, in fact, dominated by Christians.... not what I expected to see, being one of the four atheists that have clicked THAT particular box to date.
Very interesting.
I'm not surprised. This is really a microcosm of the country as a whole, and most people identify themselves as Christians (even though most people aren't practicing any particular domination with regularity). I've long suspected that we have more Christians than those who actively take part in many of the discussions.
Speaking from personal experience, I don't take part in a lot of CE threads that I have opinions about... that is, unless I have very strong opinions and feel compelled to comment. It is rather intimidating engaging in discussions with people here, partly because I feel there is an air of discrimination towards Christian opinions (a lot of pigeon-holing and assumptions made about Christians' beliefs), partly because I'm only 23 and don't have the life experience and historical perspective of many others here, and partly because many people here seem to operate under the maxim "he who argues with the most condescension, argues best."
Keep in mind that you'll likely get replies to this thread from people who aren't "regulars" in the CE forum to the extent JP, OldGuy, Jazno, Russ, etc. are.
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Keep in mind that you'll likely get replies to this thread from people who aren't "regulars" in the CE forum to the extent JP, OldGuy, Jazno, Russ, etc. are.
true - especially if one uses the "new posts" feature rather than browsing down in individual forums - who is most likely to respond to a poll of "what is your religion" ?
true - especially if one uses the "new posts" feature rather than browsing down in individual forums - who is most likely to respond to a poll of "what is your religion" ?
Yeah, I did that. I consider myself an agnostic so you can just take my vote out of the count if you want. I'm not usually one to tread in CE waters.
Poll: what is your religion?
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