Get In and Get Out: RESULTS are the name of my game

[Espi]

In case you do want to start on metabolism boosters, I'd recommend straight ephedrine HCL & separate caffein pills . Stay away from yohimbe & ephedra as those aren't calibrated as well, you can end up having too much or too little.

Yohimbine is good for when you've already dieted down to very low bf% levels and targets more specifically the 'female' fat regions.
The other advantage of yohimbine is that it is a libido enhancer.. so if you're interested in that aspect you might try Y instead.

http://drumlib.com/dp/000006.htm has all the info you want to know about E+C combinations.. but my word of advice : start at a low dose of half a tab each and take it twice a day .. build up towards 2-3 full tabs a day.. and do not even think about cycling up & down.. that killed me back in the days when I used it for a long time. For example I would sleep up to 14 hrs when off it.. the side-effects are huge when you cycle and barely noticeable when you use it chronically.

However.. for YOU right now the best approach is to stay away from either EC or Y combinations and just go for tyrosine to boost your well-being. Resveratrol & green tea are other safe supps which are healthy for you as well.

[Etana]

Diet Break/Maintenance : Week 12 END-RESULTS: July 27, 2009
Actual weekly calorie average 2032cal (goal cal 2000)
Actual 12-week’s calorie average = 1343cal
Week's GWF SURPLUS 133cal. This is maintenance
12 weeks' total GWF deficit: 59,989 or 17 lbs loss in theory
177.2 lbs current, 175.6lbs begin (+1.6 lbs scale gain in 12 wks)
I gained 5.2lbs this week, carb soaking water weight (from last week)


I gained 2.0" this week:
.............................. ..Total
Measurements...5/4…...7/26.... .change..(from last wk)
Bust...........41.....41.0...= 0.0”....( 0.0” from last wk)
Ribcage .......37.5...36.5...=-1.0” ...(+0.5” from last wk)
waist..........40.....38.0...=-2.0"....(+0.5” from last wk)
stomach........44.5...41.0...=-3.5"....( 0.0” from last wk)
hips...........47.....46.0...=-1.0"....(+1.0” from last wk)
r. thigh.......24.5...23.0...=-1.0”....( 0.0” from last wk)
Total inches lost = 9" ... gain +2.0" this week

COMMENTS:
1. RESULTS (fat loss and measurements): Gained a whopping 5.2 pounds this week; I imagine 4 pounds at least is water gain. Gained inches. Haven't done resistance in 2 weeks. This is how a break is supposed to be? Well, nothing much to say, trying not to feel badly
2. RESULTS (FOOD): According to the GWF I ate at maintenance. I expected to gain water weight since I had starchy carbs, and had been really low on starchy carbs the past 11 weeks. I'm surprised at how much I still have physical cravings to impulse junk food. I did not weigh food, but I did record everything I ate, which is good, considering how I hated writing it in fitday. I have been thinking about my choices, noticing how full I get on what foods, how the processed foods make me feel. All this is good and I am okay about it.

3. RESULTS EXERCISE: I walked and did some NEAT but had no deficit this week. I believe it was supposed to be no deficit as a diet break week. ????
4. Water definitely suffered. Not very interested in it at all.
5. SLEEP about 7 hours each night, a pretty relaxing week.
6. How I feel: I'm okay with all of this, the food, the pounds and inches gained.

I am still stressed about what to do differently next week when I begin deficit. Calorie average? Carb cycling? Can refeed day Saturday be on non-lifting day? I think for now I will start a program that feels good to me, and I assume I'll lose the water the first week or 2. If I stall on inches lost I will contact Leigh again, I guess. Perhaps for the next 12 weeks I should really concentrate on the inches and forget about the scale, and just assume someday it will catch up?


For this week to come:
Better quality food, more water, more sleep + Recovery work

Promise EVERY day to weigh and to log
I cause desired results by my compliance and actions

[Espi]

Phew.. almost thought you were going to take only 1 week as a break.. 2 weeks is much better.
What are you going to do for exercise this upcoming week?

[Etana]

Originally Posted by Espi

Phew.. almost thought you were going to take only 1 week as a break.. 2 weeks is much better.
What are you going to do for exercise this upcoming week?

Well, I was planning on 3 days' moderate Jazzercise plus walking plus NEAT.

Do you think I should begin weights again this week?
I was planning on beginning OPT with the workout schedule again next Monday, but I could do weights during this diet break... ??

[AnnetteW]

Etana, do you use a food scale? I was looking at your fitday, and comparing your "cherries" to what I've been eating in cherries. I also looked at the numbers from CalorieKing.com and they are the same as the ones I use on Sparkpeople.

Okay, so I weighed 25 of my cherries and that came out to 264g, which is 166 calories. If I plug in 25 cherries though, I only get 107 calories.

That's a difference of 60 calories. Those kind of measurements will add up.

You said the following:

I did not weigh food, but I did record everything I ate

I know we can get overly obsessive about the numbers, and I don't know how obsessive we want to be about the numbers, I'm just wondering if this might be affecting you in some way, especially right now when you are supposed to be eating at maintenance, maybe you are eating over maintenance.

Ugh....so confusing. I am watching you closely though, as my time isn't too far away (okay, so five weeks, but still...)

I think I'll venture deeper into your fitday log as I find it interesting to see what other people eat.

edited to add: Okay, I ventured in deeper, and yes you weigh. I guess the cherries just stuck out in my mind as I've been eating them lately. So you can ignore everything I wrote up above...lol.

[Espi]

I wouldn't do OPT exercises myself.. AFAIK most of them are rather 'lame'.. but it's up to you to go for it, if you feel comfortable with OPT.
Are you lifting at home?

[Etana]

Originally Posted by AnnetteW

Etana, do you use a food scale? I was looking at your fitday, and comparing your "cherries" to what I've been eating in cherries. I also looked at the numbers from CalorieKing.com and they are the same as the ones I use on Sparkpeople.

Okay, so I weighed 25 of my cherries and that came out to 264g, which is 166 calories. If I plug in 25 cherries though, I only get 107 calories.

That's a difference of 60 calories. Those kind of measurements will add up.

You said the following:
I know we can get overly obsessive about the numbers, and I don't know how obsessive we want to be about the numbers, I'm just wondering if this might be affecting you in some way, especially right now when you are supposed to be eating at maintenance, maybe you are eating over maintenance.

Ugh....so confusing. I am watching you closely though, as my time isn't too far away (okay, so five weeks, but still...)

I think I'll venture deeper into your fitday log as I find it interesting to see what other people eat.

edited to add: Okay, I ventured in deeper, and yes you weigh. I guess the cherries just stuck out in my mind as I've been eating them lately. So you can ignore everything I wrote up above...lol.

I have not been weighing during this maintenance week. I thought about it, and decided I needed a break from the anal numbers, because I knew I was in for another 12 weeks of weighing food for large deficit goals, and I thought a break in weighing was important for me. I, of course, don't like what happened with the scale, but I think even if I had been pristene with my healthy foods, the scale would have gone up 3-5 pounds.

While in deficit I weigh my cherries including the pits. I weigh nectarines, peach, apricot without the pit, since it's easy to take 1 pit out. I dont' weigh oranges, or weigh without rind, apples without core.

Don't look at my fitday from July 18 to July 27, it is ugly and embarrassing. But from May 4 to July 17 it is reasonable and healthy, though no Quark to be found

In one of my posts this week, I mentioned how I was noticing how with restaurant meals it's really impossible to get accuracy, and I wanted to have some restaurant meals this week, so it is possible I am above maintenance. I just didn't want to be eating 3000-4000-5000 cal every day, which I notice I could easily do.

I think if I had lost 8-12 pounds during the 12 week OPT deficit, my "diet break" might have been more stringent, more healthy, but there was just a lot of anger and resentment and frustration I was feeling, so my diet break week was emotional eating. I'm feeling really good today, let's see how this week goes food-wise...

I welcome any comments you may make, in reading my fitday (but not teasing me about last week's junk...).... I'm planning on adhereing to 1-ingredient foods for my deficit, so any thing you see... is fine to say.

even water. I don't know when or if I'll drink 1.5 gallon per day, but I may try it at some point.

Okay, so I weighed 25 of my cherries and that came out to 264g, which is 166 calories. If I plug in 25 cherries though, I only get 107 calories.

It is really eye-opening amazing to notice the difference between weighing food and eyeballing it, or even counting cherries!

[Etana]

Originally Posted by Espi

I wouldn't do OPT exercises myself.. AFAIK most of them are rather 'lame'.. but it's up to you to go for it, if you feel comfortable with OPT.
Are you lifting at home?

Some days at home and some days at my full gym at work. I like bodyweight and dumbbell exercises. I did look at the OPT Remix and have thought that after this 12-weeks, I'd probably try that or NROLFW.

My body has just recovered/gotten stronger from surgery and still am recovering from rotator cuff injury, so I saw no reason to push the weights.

I wonder, since my exercise program is definitely moderate, not intense.... would that be what is stalling my weight loss. But Leigh suggests the opposite; when you don't have results you might lighten the intensity and do more time. I dunno. I also thought: start with the fat loss, then when I reach 145 lb, start increasing the weights, if my goal weight now is 150lb...

I'm sure the weights are tame for you.

Do you think I should lift this week or not?

[Espi]

It's not so much the weights that are tame, since everyone does what they can do within their limitations.. but I've read that the exercise from OPT are tame/lame and there are better choices during a cut.

Easing back into the lifting would be a good idea yes. Besides, I've always messed up most with my diet when I took time off from lifting for too long.

[scribess]

Originally Posted by Espi

It's not so much the weights that are tame, since everyone does what they can do within their limitations.. but I've read that the exercise from OPT are tame/lame and there are better choices during a cut.

Easing back into the lifting would be a good idea yes. Besides, I've always messed up most with my diet when I took time off from lifting for too long.

I'm sure a good deal of Leigh's reasoning in her programming has to do with her experience of women in particular running into hormonal issues from intense exercise. She notes specifically that while NROL and NROL4W are great programs, she encountered lots of women whose periods stopped while doing NR even when not in a deficit.

Of course, Etana, you're in a different frame of life, but maybe you should see what your lab results are before picking your lifting/exercise program.

[Etana]

Originally Posted by Espi

It's not so much the weights that are tame, since everyone does what they can do within their limitations.. but I've read that the exercise from OPT are tame/lame and there are better choices during a cut. .

What better choices?

Easing back into the lifting would be a good idea yes. Besides, I've always messed up most with my diet when I took time off from lifting for too long.

That's because you love to lift. I may be posting on JP Fitness Forum, but the dirty secret is that I don't love to lift. I do like the strength and how my body feels when I have been lifting...

The OPT wasn't much different from the Turbulence Training supersets bodyweight and I did really like those routines. There were some exercises I hated, but the step up and walking lunge etc, seem pretty basic.... I mean universally basically good exericses

[Espi]

It's not so much lifting per se but exercise what I meant.. taking time off from exercise means you are not using as much glycogen and become more insulin resistant.
Or maybe it's just less endorphins... either way : within 4 days dietary compliance would be in the gutter!

[Etana]

Originally Posted by Espi

It's not so much lifting per se but exercise what I meant.. taking time off from exercise means you are not using as much glycogen and become more insulin resistant.
Or maybe it's just less endorphins... either way : within 4 days dietary compliance would be in the gutter!

It might be different since my goal is fatloss, losing weight and inches. The past 12 weeks, compliance wasn't too hard, until I saw I wasn't getting results and I got blue..

If I were at goal weight, eating at maintenance, I think I'd be more dependent on exercise to keep my whole program focused...

[dianas]

OPT has basic traditional weight lifting exercises--squats, deadlift, shoulder press, planks etc so I wouldn't call it lame. They are dumbbell or body weight minimal equipment (so as could be done by a beginner or at home) so some consider that lame but again it's all what you put into it. I think even an advanced lifter could get benefits from any basic program as long as they are lifting according to their abilities and goals.

Etana have you thought about just doing what you like for the next few weeks like NEAT and Jazzercise while trying the carb cycling? I'm an advocate of the philosophy that the best exercise is the exercise that actually gets done. There's more than one way to get from A to Z and each has it's pros and cons. Sometimes I think there's too much of this whole mentality of you got to be doing the perfect program or you're wasting your time in the fitness world. (Not that I'm dissing programs I think they're wonderful and have their place too.) I wouldn't recommend cardio as the only form of exercise for long term but I see nothing wrong with a cardio only rotation every now and then. I think people tend to forget that there's health benefits to just getting off your butt and moving around. I know some people that are very physically fit and they don't do any formal exercise but they certainly are getting plenty of lifting and cardio in just with everyday life because they're on the go all the time. If you're going to be trying a whole new diet strategy I see nothing wrong with staying with an exercise routine you're familiar with and one that you like while you focus on figuring out the carb cycling.

Now me I'm totally weight training focused so I'm a lot like Espi in that if I'm taking too many days off from lifting it tends to derail everything else. But that's just me.

[Etana]

Originally Posted by dianas

OPT has basic traditional weight lifting exercises--squats, deadlift, shoulder press, planks etc so I wouldn't call it lame. They are dumbbell or body weight minimal equipment (so as could be done by a beginner or at home) so some consider that lame but again it's all what you put into it. I think even an advanced lifter could get benefits from any basic program as long as they are lifting according to their abilities and goals.

Etana have you thought about just doing what you like for the next few weeks like NEAT and Jazzercise while trying the carb cycling? I'm an advocate of the philosophy that the best exercise is the exercise that actually gets done. There's more than one way to get from A to Z and each has it's pros and cons. Sometimes I think there's too much of this whole mentality of you got to be doing the perfect program or you're wasting your time in the fitness world. (Not that I'm dissing programs I think they're wonderful and have their place too.) I wouldn't recommend cardio as the only form of exercise for long term but I see nothing wrong with a cardio only rotation every now and then. I think people tend to forget that there's health benefits to just getting off your butt and moving around. I know some people that are very physically fit and they don't do any formal exercise but they certainly are getting plenty of lifting and cardio in just with everyday life because they're on the go all the time. If you're going to be trying a whole new diet strategy I see nothing wrong with staying with an exercise routine you're familiar with and one that you like while you focus on figuring out the carb cycling.

Now me I'm totally weight training focused so I'm a lot like Espi in that if I'm taking too many days off from lifting it tends to derail everything else. But that's just me.

The more I read about it, the high calorie days are supposed to accompany the weight training days. I will do this as well as possible, but if some weeks are off and I feel energetic, I'll be okay with this.

I plan to do the OPT resistance. I am almost certain that is what caused the inches lost. I just won't do it 4x/week; 3 days cardio and 4 days resistance was too much, but 3 were okay.

I'm a bit confused about small deficits versus large deficits. I think I need large deficits, so I assume I will be doing as much extra NEAT and walking as possible to get high deficits. I don't understand that 30-35-40% deficits that Leigh suggests. She then told me that if I couldn't lower my calories any more, then I should up my activity, or vice versa...

I agree with you about not trying to be perfect. If a week happens with 2 days resistance, that will be okay too.

[Etana]

I just found records I kept last year before I read FLTS, when I dieted for 5 months and lost 5 pounds (Most recent is on top of the list, beginning is at bottom of list)... What is worrysome is that I was doing ESE 2 days per week, which means I was carb cycling then, eating 2 days at 700 cal to offset other higher calorie days. This does not make me confident about carb cycling success in the coming 12 weeks.

I have all my food written. I'm including my weekly summaries here: (pt. = WeightWatcher points)
173 pounds July 28, 2008 .(weigh-in at Dr. Mitchell is 178.5)
ESE = EatStopEat
TT = Turbulence Training (3 days interval, 3 days bodyweight/dumbell)
Didn't know about NEAT; probably pretty sedentary, doing Weightwatchers, "vegies were free" so probably add 150 cal per day for vegies.

WEEK DATE avg cal. week's exerc TT Jazzercise ESE
wk18: Jul27: avg 1170 cal. Exerc. 5of6: 3TT + 3cardio. 2 ESE 173
wk17: Jul20: avg 1176 cal. Exerc. 4of6: 3TT + 2cardio. 2 ESE
wk16: Jul13: avg 1218 cal. Exerc. 5of6: 3TT + 2cardio. 1 ESE 174
wk15: Jul06: vacation: ~ 1500-2200 cal/day, 1 day of ValSlides
wk14: Jun29: avg 1406 cal. Exerc. 4of6: 3TT + 0cardio. 2 ESE
wk13: Jun22: avg 1525 cal. Exerc. 4of6: 3TT + 1cardio. 2 ESE 174#
wk12: Jun15: avg 1050 cal. Exerc. 5of6: 4TT + 3cardio. 2 ESE 174#
wk11: Jun08: avg 1543 cal. Exerc. 5of6: 2TT + 3cardio. 1 ESE 173#
wk10: Jun01: avg 1089 cal. Exerc. 6of6: 3TT + 3cardio. 2 ESE 172#
wk09: May25: avg 1333 cal. Exerc. 4of6: 2TT + 2cardio. 2 ESE
wk08: May18: avg 1311 cal. Exerc. 4of6: 3TT + 1cardio. 2 ESE
wk07: May11: avg 1294 cal. Exerc. 3of6: 0 wt +3 aerob. 2 ESE
wk06: May04: avg 1363 cal. Exerc. 4of6: 0 wt +4 aerob. 1 ESE
wk05: Apr27: avg ?? Exerc. 1of6: 0 wt +1 aerob. 2 ESE
wk04: Apr20: avg ?? passover Exerc. 3of6: 1 wt +2 aerob. 2 ESE
wk03: Apr13: avg 1260 cal. Exerc. 5of6: 2 wt +4 aerob. 1 ESE
wk02: Apr06: avg 1213 cal. Exerc. 3of6: 1 wt +2 aerob. 2 ESE
wk01: Mar30: avg 1311 cal. Exerc. 6of6: 3 wt +3 aerob. 2 ESE 178#
178 pounds March 30 BEGIN

I'll see the dr. tomorrow for lab tests, but all in all, the only thing I can see from all this, is that what I am complaining about is the slowness of the results. When I ate deficit both last year and for this year's OPT, I did lose inches and I did slowly slowly lose weight.

I think I ultimately just have to persevere on deficit and activity, and give up my goals for any fast scale drop. All the while trying different things... more water, more sleep, more 1-ingredient food, cycling weeks or cycling days within a week... I thought I'd find the key to a 1-lb per week drop, but I may not find it, and I cannot stay in a state of expectation and disappointment, so I'll just need to be content with what results I get and the pace I get them.

[Espi]

Diana, thanks for your clarification about OPT exercises.. I went with the very negative review of Lyle who took offense to one single exercise where gravity was being ignored and hence downplayed the entire program as being 'lame'. So, it's not all bad.

And most definitely agreeing with you about how it's best to do something we like as opposed to doing things we dislike so much it gets neglected. However, it's hard to imitate weight lifting.. the only thing I can think off is to go hiking in the mountains with a loaded backpack or harder variations of yoga or Pilates.

Again, the reason I'm derailing with my diet has more to do with either decreasing insulin sensitivity or decreased endorphins (or whatever little substances that reduce appetite) when becoming inactive than that exercising makes me more resolved to be compliant. In that sense I'm almost convinced that I've never even had a single day in which I was as resolved as Etana has been during this entire diet period.. boy, if I had been, I would have been truly pissed!

[Etana]

Originally Posted by Espi

Diana, thanks for your clarification about OPT exercises.. I went with the very negative review of Lyle who took offense to one single exercise where gravity was being ignored and hence downplayed the entire program as being 'lame'. So, it's not all bad.

Do you remember which exercise where gravity was being ignore?. I loved that the first 3 weeks were straight sets, the next 4 were supersets and the last 3 were circuit. I think the exercises will still challenge me for this next 12 weeks as I reach my maximum weights on each of them. There were a few I hated (DB get ups), but most I either enjoyed (upper body) or got stronger at (squats, lunges).

I do the weight lifting, at 63, because it is healthy for my body's continued strength

Again, the reason I'm derailing with my diet has more to do with either decreasing insulin sensitivity or decreased endorphins (or whatever little substances that reduce appetite) when becoming inactive than that exercising makes me more resolved to be compliant. In that sense I'm almost convinced that I've never even had a single day in which I was as resolved as Etana has been during this entire diet period.. boy, if I had been, I would have been truly pissed!

Yes truly compliant and truly pissed.
I see how this break week, I am not rigidly focused on a goal, and I get pretty sloppy with food. Yesterday I ate really healthy, but then the evening was my historical "snacking" tortilla chips with melted cheese and salsa, then peanuts & m&ms... that was dinner. During OPT I was so calm in the evenings, rarely snacked.

[AnnetteW]

Luckily the diet break is a short set period of time. You can definitely see the slippery slope here.

Question...are you craving the routine of a diet again? And do you feel it will be easy or hard to jump right back in when the break is over?

I'm thinking I won't allow myself much junk during my break, no cookies or crap, things I know I can binge on. Heaven forbid...no NutterButters for me.

[scribess]

Originally Posted by dianas

The fly. It won't work right in an upright position with dumbbells. I always used a flat bench for it. Even Leigh conceded this one in the Leigh and Lyle wars.

Heh, I think I even remember noting in my log that the flys were much harder upright than on my back, as I'd previously done. Thanks, I'll start doing this on my back on my ball (I don't have a bench at home).

[dianas]

Originally Posted by Etana

Do you remember which exercise where gravity was being ignore?.

The chest fly. It shouldn't be done sitting up with dumbbells but laying on your back. Actually Leigh pretty much immediately conceded this point as soon as Lyle pointed it out but the Lyle/Leigh wars continued. It was quite humorous actually.

I tried it her way and immediately concluded it was dumb and laid down to do it. No big in my book.

I also like the huge variety in OPT in both cardio and weight training styles. It's a very nice mix.

[Espi]

Ah , so it was the flye (fly is the insect).. Lyle can be a nasty pants frequently (has been to me as well)

[Etana]

Originally Posted by AnnetteW

Question...are you craving the routine of a diet again? And do you feel it will be easy or hard to jump right back in when the break is over?.

yes and easy

I'm thinking I won't allow myself much junk during my break, no cookies or crap, things I know I can binge on. Heaven forbid...no NutterButters for me

I think the point of the break is so that I'm not resentful during the 12 weeks, of what I can't have. It has also been good learning experience on what to add that IS healthy, like what have I not allowed myself.. that is healthy, like 8oz steak instead of 4, or peanut butter, or even a piece of bread and butter.

I'm off in 5 min to my work ice cream social.

[Etana]

Went to Dr. today; she took blood work; results in 48 hours (Thursday). I had the same ambivalent feeling as the last time. I share info, she listens but doesn't offer any of her knowledge.

I said I felt healthy, and she responded, "then there's probably nothing wrong." Then I said, but I lost 3 pounds in 12 weeks, and same last year. She said, "we'll see what the test results say."

My thyroid symptoms:
1. occasionally can't fall asleep at night for 3 hours
2. digestive problems
3. irregular, long, painful periods (15 years ago)
4. weight loss stubborn slow

[Espi]

In case your doc won't go the thyroid route, you might want to try 7-keto-DHEA, it's very similar to DHEA but doesn't convert into sex hormones and supposedly helps converting T4 to T3.

[Peaches6311]

Originally Posted by Etana

Went to Dr. today; she took blood work; results in 48 hours (Thursday). I had the same ambivalent feeling as the last time. I share info, she listens but doesn't offer any of her knowledge.

Well, we will find out results on the same day. My doctor had me give blood 2 different times in my cycle. One was on day 3 and the other was 7 days before I started again (most women day 21 but for me it was day 19 and then it was only 5 days before my period). I am soooooo ready to find out the results.

Believe it or not, for the first time in my life I am losing weight fairly easily. I am eating 1500 - 1700 calories and in the past 3 weeks have lost a little over a pound. I am so amazed and happy. I don't know what has changed or if it will continue --- but happy for now.

I wished that you had a doctor that you trusted more. I find it hard to trust any doctor, but I have found a place I feel a little more confident. Even the woman who took my blood commented on the thoroughness of my doctor. I like the fact that the office uses a combination of holistic and traditional medicine.

Best wishes ---

[sunshinekisses]

Etana

Your attitude towards food during this maintenance period is worrisome.

The way and the things you ate when you weren't dieting caused you the need to diet, why would you return to eating those things when you come off your diet?

I'm not up on a high horse or podium expressing this to you. I was there at one point as well - I would diet, end my diet, return to my old eating habits, regain weight and diet again. It's a vicious cycle that I finally broke.

I don't want to project my experiences onto yours, however, I do see some of the same food attitudes that I used to have presenting themselves in your posts.

Maintenance periods should not be seen as a time to be able to eat all the junk that you weren't able to eat while you dieted... (I think that is one thing I loved about Weight Watchers approach to dieting - they taught you how to still eat what you wanted but in appropriate portion sizes, while also encouraging you to see that the healthy your food choices, the more food you could eat.) I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't ever be able to eat "junk" again, but I think you need to change the way you include junk into your diet. Make it a treat. And in order to be a treat, you shouldn't be eating it EVERY day.

That being said, I hope your blood work results provide you with some insight to your weight loss difficulties. I know I would be frustrated to no end had I dieted as long and with as much diligence as you have with very little results.

And on that note, I may have missed it, but did you read the blog Leigh Peele posted about dieting and hypothyroid? She's got some good tips at the end of it that you may consider...

ETA: i just noticed your comment on the blog post i'm referring to

[Espi]

True & wise words sunshinekisses: junkfood should be a treat not a daily recurrence.. will try to remember those words for myself too!
I'm still sorry that not more people buy Lyle's Flexible Diet but all rush to the Rapid Fat Loss manual instead.. still, that manual (if applied properly) still teaches good eating habits for coming off the diet.
The main advantage of the Flexible Diet is that you get to eat more calories and henceforth can work more treats into it, without needing to feel so deprived at the end of the diet that you rush back into the same foods you ate when gaining too much weight.

However.. the good news does seem that Etana is more mindful of portions right now, so don't be too harsh on her.. besides there's still week 2 of the maintenance period in which she plans for just eating more NORMAL (non-junk-food) food and diminishing the treats. I did however flinch upon reading about the ice cream social and am deadly curious what you opted to eat? A huge amount of ice cream or just a small portion?

Re ice cream.. one of the things I've decided to do is to add ice cream to my coffee after a workout , rather than indulge in a huge amount of it. There's only so much ice cream you can add to coffee so that limits portion size automatically .. it's been the same for chocolate which also accompanies my coffee. Since I limit coffee to just 2 mugs every day, there's a natural upper limit in calories. Unless of course I'd buy a giant mug .

P.S. when I told you about (Jarrow's) 7-keto-DHEA I hadn't said yet that I've just started on it yesterday. Hadn't made the connection to it yet, but during the workout I was really outright HOT & sweating profusely. This morning BBT was raised a bit more than I had expected it to be.. too early for a conclusion but it really seems like a winning supp. And not terribly expensive either.
Too bad any combo with DHEA is a banned substance here.. so won't be selling any of it, just use it for myself.

[sunshinekisses]

Originally Posted by Espi

True & wise words sunshinekisses: junkfood should be a treat not a daily recurrence.. will try to remember those words for myself too!
I'm still sorry that not more people buy Lyle's Flexible Diet but all rush to the Rapid Fat Loss manual instead.. still, that manual (if applied properly) still teaches good eating habits for coming off the diet.
The main advantage of the Flexible Diet is that you get to eat more calories and henceforth can work more treats into it, without needing to feel so deprived at the end of the diet that you rush back into the same foods you ate when gaining too much weight.

However.. the good news does seem that Etana is more mindful of portions right now, so don't be too harsh on her.. besides there's still week 2 of the maintenance period in which she plans for just eating more NORMAL (non-junk-food) food and diminishing the treats. I did however flinch upon reading about the ice cream social and am deadly curious what you opted to eat? A huge amount of ice cream or just a small portion?

I can't agree more with the Flexible Dieting approach if you are unable to differentiate between creating eating habit changes while dieting that can be applied for life and extreme dieting for extreme rapid results.

I'd also like to emphasize - which I was trying to get across and hoped came across in my post - that I'm not trying to be harsh on Etana at all. I am merely expressing concern for the approach and attitude regarding food during her maintenance weeks that may derail her in the future. Again, I'm not trying to be hash to her at all.

[AnnetteW]

I like what SunshineKisses had to say. I've always dieted with the intention of eating well afterwards, but the first foray into the evil world of sweets and goodies did me in and I was doomed yet again.

I absolutely have to learn to NOT eat those foods. The less I eat something, the less I desire it, yet if I eat it I will desire it again.

I've just read the book "The End of Overeating" by David Kessler, and will do a review in the Troubleshoot forum, but it's all about why food entice us so much.

We're taught not to view certain foods as bad or good, but why can't some foods be considered "bad?" If I eat something and I can't control my eating of it, then I shouldn't be eating it, seems simple enough to me. Or I have to eat it in a controlled environment, i.e. and icecream at BaskinRobbins vs. a 1/2 gallon in my fridge. Same as how I will now allow myself wine in a public setting, but not in my house. I can control it at a restaurant (cost) but in my own home, not a chance.

So much to think about when it comes to food. I read another book about just saying NO to "bad" foods (or one's trigger foods I should say) and I need to hunt that book down again.

I'm beginning to realize I do need rules to follow. I have never considered that I have an eating disorder, but it doesn't mean I don't about some things.

Sorry for the ramble, it should be in my own log....lol