There's an interesting plan 'out there' of which I forgot who's the author but the principle is like going on a bulk and then let it be followed by a tiny cut to nip the extra fat gain in the bud. It's to the tune of 10 days bulking + 4 days cutting.
My own minicut plan calls for 1 week of bulking (PMS-week) and 2-3 weeks of cutting. If I were aiming to bulk, I'd go for 3 weeks of bulking (10% over maintenance for the week) and 1 week of cutting (from cycle day 5-12 when I'm least hungry)
You know I am thinking about doing something like this but then I wonder if that makes sense due to strength. From my own personal experience I know that I don't come into my strength on a bulk for about 6 weeks. I would guess that is when I make the most LBM gains. If I started a cut then I think that might make LBM gains less. These and other questions are what I am hoping to drag from Alan. When it comes to nutrition he seems to really get a lot of things. My hope is that he also gets how that all plays in the procees of bulking. Right now I have gained 5lbs and 2.7 of those lbs have been in fat. Not a great record since at least some of the other stuff is likely water.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Yep, Kelly Baggett wrote the plan I was alluding to. Didn't know Roland did it.. I also know there's been a few followers on Lyle's 'mean' forum, but can't recall whether there was any woman doing it. Are you menopasual Karla or still having cycles? In the latter case, it pays off to follow natural appetite cues.
I spoke with Mr. Nutrition (Aragon) this AM. After some explanation of my objectives, he agreed to accept the challenge of this "fine tuning" effort. Our objective over the next months will be to beat the bulking numbers that I managed to do last year on my own. Last year I did a bulk in close to 4 months and gained 10lbs total. 3 of those lbs were fat. When I did my cut I manged to lose 2.5 of "other" stuff. My assumtion is that I gained at least 4.5lbs of LBM in those months or just over .25lbs a week. Alan says he will work out a program for me complete including workouts that will drive me to this objective. He seemed happy to be talking to a female client that is interested in getting bigger instead of smaller. Also it is pretty exciting I would think to get a client that has no real problems following food plans. I will be able to follow his plan to a very close proximation throughout the next weeks. It will be really interesting to see how this compares to last year with his help.
I am actually most excited about the fact that he offered to do a training program for me too. You know in all this time that I have been working with trainers, not one of them has offered to do a thorough program for me. For the most part I just made up my own programs in between my other sessions. When I was seeing David this wasn't a big deal 'cause I saw him 2x a week. It is more of a big deal now and I am only maintaining my strength right now. I considered starting NROL or one of those other programs but even more attractive is to get a deeper understanding of progressions and how they fit in workout plans. I actually rather enjoy creating the workout and if I can learn to make them so that I realize progress then just think how much I can benefit my own clients as I get them.
I like Alan 'cause his books are so detailed and scientific that it makes my eyes tear. Beside what other sort of person can deal with me?
I forgot to post my results from the past 1.5 weeks. I will be more accountable for these numbers now that I am working with Alan so expect them more regularly. As you can see I had a great week last week but not a great overall for the past 6 weeks. I am gaining more fat than other at this point.
Date
lbs
bf%
Daily avg cals
Daily avg protein in g
Daily avg carbs in g
Daily avg fat in g
Daily avg macro % (P, C, F)
Sep 2 08
118.4
12.4%
1750
187
151
48.6
42,34,24
5-Oct-08
121.6
14.7%
2192
233
181
61.6
42,33,25
16-Oct-08
123.4
14.1%
2137
233
296
49.6
41,38,21
This week in lbs total
This week in lbs fat
This week in lbs other
Average Per every week so far in lbs
Average Per week lbsof fat
Average Per week lbs other
1.8
0.48
1.32
0.83
0.45
0.38
Total lbs
Total lbs in fat
Total lbs in Other
5
2.72
2.28
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Yep, Kelly Baggett wrote the plan I was alluding to. Didn't know Roland did it.. I also know there's been a few followers on Lyle's 'mean' forum, but can't recall whether there was any woman doing it. Are you menopasual Karla or still having cycles? In the latter case, it pays off to follow natural appetite cues.
Sorry did not mean to ignore your question. I am pera-meno with werid shit happening every month, Heavy or Light flows (your guess as good as mine) in addition to loss of focus, heat flashing, etc. Wish the damn thing would just happen already. Even so I am not nearly so bad off as many.
It is cool that I am genuinely hungry right now. I could probably go off all this logging and tracking if I wasn't into this extreme GAIN thing right now.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
CRAP!! I lost weight. Espi was right to feed the feeling not pay attention to the numbers. The good news is that I now know how my body reacts to bulk and cut pretty well. I had driven my metabolism down to around 1850 or so a day burn rate at the bottom of my cut. By the 6th week it definatly was on fire again. If today's scale reading is anywhere near close to right I am burning at 2370 kcals a day again. Holy Cow this little body is burning.
Had a 2 hour hands-on demonstration in the gym on all the chest, tris and bis exercises and machines. It was fun. I am not getting along famously with the instructor in this course so we will see if I stick it through with him. He has very strong points but he disagrees about squatting parallel versus ATG, he says things like he doesn't want to give his girl man-abs (indicating that he can actually make a woman's abs appear like a mans somehow) and stuff like that. I tried to discuss with him RE the ATG squat findings that I had learned about and he shut that down pretty fast stating that his gym will do ACSM period. I also tried to figure out how he can train a woman's abs such that she either has tendenosus inscriptions showing or not. I am thinking that really depends on bf% much more than training. Anyway he is pretty uninterested in any sort of discussion and is trying to get this business off the ground and he needs to have all of us onboard with his training program without question. I have a hard time with the "without question" part (big surprise there huh?) I also have a hard time with the way he talks badly about everyone in the gym who does things differently than him. There is some history there that I do not understand but even so that is just too unprofessional for words. On the extreme other side he is giving me some of the very best education I could ask for in this area for my dollar. I am learning much more good than bad so I will treat this course not like a school where intelligent folks discuss things, but rather like a church. The church of ACSM that is.
Following the class I did legs again with that crazy bodybuilding trainer guy (Noel). I actually like him in a lot of ways. That said leg days are pretty brutal. The second machine always makes my back tired. The weights are so freaking heavy. After the last rep on the third machine I fell out of it again with no ability to stand up. Noel actually asked me if I was okay and if it hurt. It doesn't really hurt. At first it sort of does it just sends these spasms up and down my body and I swear I can feel the muscles fibers tearing but it is short lived. Mostly when I try to move my legs I just cannot do it. It takes me about 30 seconds before I can even stand and then I shake for a bit more like a newborn colt. He says that is amazing way to workout and says he wants to video it because there are so few people that ever can push it like that.
He was also happy today by the size of my legs and how nice and even they are filling out. They are noticably bigger despite my weight loss this week. Is this his work? I don't know. I came to him at the bottom of my cut and was pretty depleted so it could just be my filling up again. Still I am not unhappy with the way they are looking. My glutes are definately getting bigger too. I never had anything but a flat ass before so that is cool.
David (my first trainer) called me while I was working legs with Noel. He was watching college football downtown and asked me to join him. I like hanging with David and we had some business to work on so I took him up on the offer and had my post-workout meal there as well. I pigged out and got a double chicken breast sandwhich and french fries. David is bulking too so he also ordered the same.
Then I made the mistake of telling him about the workout I just had including the 185lb squats. David went nutz on me right there and then. He actually stood up and basically yelled at me like I was a kid. He spewed all sorts of stuff about dangerous training methods and then he went on about how he had spent so much time in rehabbing me over the past year and how it takes just one split second for unconditioned joints to give and then I would be crawling etc.... I don't remember the rest. Near the end he did say that if I got hurt he would personally go make a visit to that gym. Then he asked me again what the hell I was thinking.... I just looked at him in shock and he realized that I was embarassed and apolgized for being passionate but that was his thing and I was his peeps. I told him I would end it shortly and we hugged and made up and I will. The ACSM teacher/trainer signed his lease this week for his gym and we will be moving there soon to finish our school/training. That will be a nice clean way for me to cut the other relationship. I really hate to do it. I don't mind the trainer or even the training and I am getting results but too many people telling me to stop.
Gawd this is starting to read like a freak'n soap opera anyway. There is actually more to this story but I will stop it here and leak the rest over time... I am really looking forward to getting my new program from Alan. It will be nice to actually be on a program where I can measure progress a bit more easily.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
It's an interesting read everytime I come in here.
Oh boy.. David is really passionate about you.. not that he was right in every way (remember he also told you to not squat below parallel) but he genuinely cares about you ...
You're so right about it being a 'church' and like religion.. this is very much true about diet/nutrition, people barely are open to critique once they embrace a certain method.
And yes, your maintenance is really back to its' old levels and probably even higher? A main difference is not just being more active, but also feeling more active: catecholamines also determine metabolic rate.
David and I disagree about some things but the difference is that I can discuss these things with David. He is very open to discussion and will even admit if he cannot prove himself right. John (the WITS) teacher does not have the bandwidth to discuss things so he just shuts those discussions down in various ways. That is distasteful to me to some degree but I understand the "no time" thing and I am learning a bunch of good stuff too.
The thing tha David got so emotional about wasn't any of that. Squatting at parallel or ATG I think make relatively little difference as far as "danger" is concerned provided that the movement is controlled. But squatting either way with weights too heavy is the problem. Also I guess a good indicator of working too heavy is when you cannot stand up after the workout. David has done this to me too but it was on bodyweight stuff. (Russian Shuffle remember) But Julie clued into these workouts as being dangerous and now David too. I don't see the danger part truthfully but I will heed the advice of these guys since I respect their opinions.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Yes, I see that danger also .. too fast progess in weight. Can be good for ego, but even better for producing injuries. It's why I'm so fond of using miniature disks..
Not so much for front squats (smallest wt jump would be 1.25x2 kg) but moreso for upper body bb work, where I can go up by 1kg at the time (0.5kgx2 kg).
Too bad about your new trainer not willing to discuss things.
Those are some serious workouts. Knowing your drive, I would be worried of pushing yourself beyond what your body can take. Its great that David is this concerned for you.
Hmmmmm... I think you're right to listen to the many people telling you that the big results are coming at too big a risk with this bb trainer. Take the out before you end up in rehab...
I'm not crazy about someone who won't discuss or take serious questions, but... it's up to you to decide if you're getting enough out of it and want to take the good and then put your own spin on it.
I ended up losing weight at the end of last week so bumbed up calories to near 2400. That seemed to give me a bit of a gain back to where I was last week at least but things might not be right in this equation 'cause of yesterday.
Yesterday I went out to eat at this German place and I was determined to eat as much as I could. I ate fondue and bread and tons of chicken salad and more bread. I think I ended up consuming more fat and carbs yesterday than a typical week. I figured that I would use that meal as a good boost and keep eating on my normal plan.
Well I just about died folks. I went home with a gut ache and slept from 4:00PM until 1:00AM and then crawled into bed and slept until 8:00 this morning. Holy crap. I know for a fact now that I just cannot do that much fat and breads in a meal. I have been getting some "dirty" foods in as of late with french fries and some big hamburger buns and stuff but nothing like that feast yesterday.
Net result is that I got a lot of rest but I don't think I made all my calories as I only at that time and one other time all day. Dooooop....
Live and learn. This week I will continue with my plan of eating fairly cleanly in the macro range of 200plus protein, 500-70 fat and the rest carbs.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
How are you feeling Karla? I hope you're back to your old self quickly. I have to say that I love your old trainer David. For him to get that upset he must really care about you. Any chance of working with him again? It sounds like the two of you have a great rapport and you could really make great gains with him now that you are gaining so much of your own knowledge. Just a thought.
How are you feeling Karla? I hope you're back to your old self quickly. I have to say that I love your old trainer David. For him to get that upset he must really care about you. Any chance of working with him again? It sounds like the two of you have a great rapport and you could really make great gains with him now that you are gaining so much of your own knowledge. Just a thought.
I am okay today though still a bit tired. I am wondering if that workout on Saturday did not have something to do with all of this. I don't know... All I know is that I do good on low fat diets. Sheesh... Today's eats are much cleaner and I managed to get a workout in. I think I will hit 2400 cals before I go to sleep. (uuuurp)
David and I cannot workout like we used to because he only has weekday and daytime hours and my job just doesn't allow for me to take off that much. I managed to do it for 8 months or so but my program is now too hot for that. He and I do hook up on weekends a lot and workout together though so I still have him in my back pocket. Also we are working on a business together that may or may not take off. More on that as it gets exciting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcoy777
MMM German food!!! Sounds like a fun meal. I can see though that the fat intake would be a lot more then usual.
Yeah I love the fat foods too and I was sitting there thinking about how I could get in 1-2K if I really pushed it down since it was so high in fat cals. I counted it and I think I did around 1300 cals in that one sitting. My gut felt like it was going to explode. I SWEAR I don't know how it is possible for Espi to eat 3-5K of cals. I must have a tiny holding tank. It sucks for me in the bulk but I am all over the cut so I guess it is all good.
BTW: I am looking so GOOD at this bf%. I can't wait for pictures to show you all.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Pretty cool workout tonight. I did chest and tris and was able to use a lot of the information I learned in class on Saturday to improve my technique. Another cool thing is that the head trainer at 24-Hour (Jason) introduced me to his new trainer. I cannot remember her name but she was this tall (cute) chick who was shoulder pressing 45lb dbs when I walked in. (oh yeah I noticed that) He intro'd me to her and she had a kick-ass hand shake and she looked me in the eye and I could just tell that she is going to be good (got that gut feeling). Jason said she has a degree in Exercise Science and is starting this week. When she shook my hand I told her I was admiring her 45lb db presses and she smiled and said she has freaky strong shoulders. I told her that I had strong shoulders too but I am nowhere near 45lb db shoulder presses. She laughed then and then she looked at me and remarked that I was in exceptional shape and she asked me about my workout program. It was love at first sight for both of us. It is so cool to have a good trainer finally at that gym. At least I am guessing she will be good. I can't wait to see her in action with clients.
On the down side the gym was so croweded that I had to modify my workout a bit. That was the first time that has happened. Monday nights are impossible for some reason.
Db flat press
1x10 (35lb)e
1x10 (37.5lb)e
1x10 (42.5lb)e The food is starting to pay off
Karla, there's an adjustment needed to go from a low-fat diet to a higher fat diet and the same is true in reverse.
Your body has to produce the right enzymes to break everything down and just completely changing your eating pattern 1 day of the week or even less frequently can really mess you up.
Back in the days I went from a VLC diet and re-introduced carbs, I was feeling awful upon eating starches as my body could no longer process them : just not enough starch enzymes.. hideous water retention & terrible flatulence. Can't believe my SO stayed with me as the 2nd weekend I was with him, I ate French fries and believe to have farted all night long ... geez.
Fortunately this went away after 6 months of deliberately eating starches several times a week.
Your best bet is to slowly ramp up your fat intake if that's what you would like to do. Or, in case you want to make it a rare event, take digestive (pancreatic) enzymes containing lipase to help you with it.
In the former case, you might want to concentrate on coconut oil as it contains a lot of medium-chain triglycerides that don't get stored as easily as fat as it can be seen as a 'fast fat' since it doesn't need bile to be broken down, hence why it's fairly easy to digest.
If you like having real butter, check out the softer types from grass-fed dairy cows which contain more short chain triglycerides like butyric acid, again easy-to-digest.
I'm fairly sure that you won't have as many digestive issues with these kind of fats. Unlike what a lot of literature likes to tell you, SCTs and MCTs are quite healthy , despite them being 'teh baaaaad saturated fats' .
Wow just had an amazing workout downtown with some of the people from my new PT class. There was just me and one of the instructors. He had something to do so I started the session with deadlifts. Then he came in and we discussed the deadlifts and what they were for. I thought I did these mainly for hamstring but he said unless they are done straight-legged that they are more about explosive power in the core than a specific hamstring workout. So we agreed that I had just warmed up my back pretty nicely. With that the workout was set for back day.
We started with pull ups and I wanted to do these unassisted as I know I can. He stopped me after 3 of them and said I needed to work for about 6 weeks with the assisted machine before I would be ready to do a pullup without assitance. I was curious as to what he meant and so he showed me on the machine. It turns out that I do pull ups using my arms and shoulders mostly. In fact I do most exercises using my arms and shoulders which is why my shoulders and arms are freakishly strong. On the assisted machine I was able to figure out how to engage my lats on this workout. We then did several other back exercises and for all of them I was directed to shift the work to the back. It made a big difference in the amount of weight I could do (less) and in the way that it hit my back. My back is burning (fire) right now in fact. WAY COOL!!! I am really loving this new learning from the class. It is very focused on isolating the muscle doing the work during an exercise.
I also learned (and maybe this is bs or elementary but new to me) that in order for a muscle to grow I need to keep it under tension for up to 2 minutes. In other words never releasing during a row or a pull down the tension from the weight to the targeted muscle.
In any case I am excited because I can now finally really start to grow my back since I know I let my arms do most the work of the exercises.
Deadlifts
1x15 (95lb)
4x10 (135lb) - these were easy for me. I am going to keep upping the sets until it is easy for me to do 5 sets before adding weight.
pullups
3x15 (various assisted weights)
1 arm bent over db row
3x15 (8lb) - I know it's sissy weight but I finally got the form for these
After my workout I turned around and coached him on a couple of the exercises. He commented at the end that I am going to do very well in this game. It was great fun. A good way to spend a lunchtime.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Yup that's what Tim tells me every so often - to use the back muscles you're supposed to be using for that exercise, not the arms and shoulders. Grats on the workout.
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Tom
No "happy hours" makes for a lot of miserable days. - Mahler
David always TOLD me that too. But I failed to do it outside of his supervision and possibly even during his supervision. With the knowledge I am gaining of the bio-mechanics and of the body parts I am able to better "feel" and make things work like they are supposed to. This will enable me later to teach it. With my new instructors and instruction we are really breaking the movements down.
Funny though... I was just looking at my back muscles last night. They are growing despite my inability to really isolate them during my workouts. I wonder if there is any argument for doing 50lb db rows incorrectly versus 8lb ones correctly. I wonder which one would grow the back more.....
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
David always TOLD me that too. But I failed to do it outside of his supervision and possibly even during his supervision. With the knowledge I am gaining of the bio-mechanics and of the body parts I am able to better "feel" and make things work like they are supposed to. This will enable me later to teach it. With my new instructors and instruction we are really breaking the movements down.
Funny though... I was just looking at my back muscles last night. They are growing despite my inability to really isolate them during my workouts. I wonder if there is any argument for doing 50lb db rows incorrectly versus 8lb ones correctly. I wonder which one would grow the back more.....
Well, Tim flat out told me it's tough to tell when you're using your back muscles in addition to the shoulders/arms, so he'd keep reminding me of it. The instruction helps, but actually doing it the proper way will help you instruct your clients better, because you can then relate what it's supposed to be like.
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Tom
No "happy hours" makes for a lot of miserable days. - Mahler
Yes, it is amazing to figure out which muscles are doing what and then to finally actually see the muscle! Good work. Sounds like you're learning a lot of valuable info in your class. Can't wait to see your pics.
It is VERY hard to tell when you are using your back muscles correctly which is why I am so excited about learning this today. I think I can now teach it too which is even better. And I mean teach it in a way that it sticks with folks.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Amazing reminders for me! I get in a bad habit of just lifting sometimes and not focusing on the targeted muscles. Now that I am building my strength back up from all the running . Now is the perfect time to refocus myself.
Well, it depends on your targets. Just like the answers I got back when I asked about how to do a deadlift 'properly'.
Apparently PL-style is.. lift the damn weight no matter what and having your hips a bit higher makes for stronger, but less healthy lifts.. less healthy since there's a huge risk of kyphosis which can ruin a back.
I've been re-trained on how to do a DL Oly-style and that's lower down and makes it more of a leg-driven exercise.. totally different feel. I like it, even though at the moment, I'm still pulling less.. legs have gotten way weaker after dropping the leg press & leg extension/curl exercises that I've been told to be bad for your health too. .. never had a problem actually w leg curl/extension but the leg press was bothering me big time.
At least the one in our gym.
Actually nearly any exercise has a good & wrong way to do it. Again 'good' is meant as.. being a healthier way to not screw up your body as much.
Anywayz.. chinning is a difficult exercise to get right. I've been told a good 'chin' looks like it starts with a shrug. Still damn to get right. Still don't feel much in the lats when chinning. 1-arm lat pull downs are good ones too.
Also, since doing hang snatches I've got pretty bad lat & abs DOMS, they surely must work the lats & abs too.. I bet you'd not mind getting taught Oly lifts.. isn't it?
Dunno how hard it would be for you to find a trainer?
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