[Simon C]

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Your making out singleply vs double ply to be a bigger difference then it is. I bet more pounds is given to me on the squat from the fact i dont have to squat as low then the fact my suit uses 2ply of material instead of 1. Lots of 2ply guys are using 1ply katanas now becuase they are better then 90% of the doubleply shirts. Even look at mark bell, hes been using one lately.

I think the difference is large, why? Because the difference in numbers is large. I do agree that the bench shirts aren't that different anymore, since the fury/f6 came out. But the difference is still there, and it's still substantial.

I said I talk from a single ply perspective, because that's what I've used. I'm not sure how I would train if I competed multi-ply, but I'm guessing it would be similar, with maybe more weeks in gear. Still lots of raw work though.

Originally Posted by Frank.S

I think you opinion will change more as you get stronger simon. The throw the gear on at the end was really popular in the early 90s, but nobody does that anymore because the gear is to good. Imagine an 800lbs bencher training raw and never going above say 550lbs on the bench, then 5 weeks out putting on a shirt and trying for a pr? disaster. very few people train like this anymore, and those that do are usually not at the top.

I train with gear 5 weeks before a comp, which is almost half the time. I'm not chucking it on "just before a meet" really, I still get good practice in it.

250lbs our of a single ply shirt lol You are dreaming, so your arguement wouldn't apply to my training.

I'm looking at the method I train still working for people totalling 500lbs more than me, while it's possible you may be right about me changing my opinions when i get stronger, I kinda doubt it now.

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

i would say, what would it be that you wanted to bring up? Would it be your geared squat or raw? Do you want to do well in PLing only, or do you want to be overall strong and strong w/o your gear?

I guess for me, i wouldn't want to rely only on gear to get strong. I would want to be able to go in and hit a strong pull or squat without gear. If i forgot gear at home, i wouldn't want it to totally ruin my workout. My goals are different than some people's though. I also think training in gear year long can be disastrous, and you are not getting strong this way. Sure, you're getting to know the gear, but if you take it off, is your raw strength up.

I think raw strength carries over heaps to geared strength, and vice versa. So training both methods would get you stronger, but I don't see the point in being in gear any more often than I already am? And I can only see negatives from using it too often.

If you forgot your gear at home, it would completely ruin your training session if you had any plan to it at all... If you were planning on going heavy in gear, you wouldn't be able to lol.

Originally Posted by Frank.S

One other option that I find helps me, is training with lighter gear and then throwing on the good stuff pre-contest.

I do about 90% of my squat training wearing an old stretched out metal pro suit and no breifs/wraps etc. This allows me to use a slightly lighter training weight while still being able to use a very similar form to full gear. Ive noticed some other lifters doing the same thing by using 1 size bigger gear in the offseason.

I agree with this, this is the way for benching imo. I want to do a 4 week buildup while in my shirt, but so I can get some experience touching weights I need to use a loose shirt for 2 weeks, and then the tighter shirt for 2 weeks.

Originally Posted by Alcoholiday

i can see this as well. It's real similar to what i was saying with the briefs/suit bottoms on one day, and gear on the other.

I think this would really work when you get stronger though. You have to remember that matthew isn't squatting 800 yet. Getting his raw, overall base strength up can only help him in a long run.

It's similar to, i think, the progression of gear from beginner to intermediate, to advanced. A beginner can get good results with just some cheap loose gear, and get an idea of what it's about. As you get stronger and still interested in geared lifting, get stronger gear. You're gonna have a hard time touching weights on heavy duty shirts if you're only benching 225 raw.

I could buy a loose super duper heavy duty 3-ply phenom, and touch 65kg in it if I wanted to

For single ply anyway(may or may not be different for multi), there isn't that much difference between cheap gear and good gear, apart from the carryover. So I don't see a point in using cheap stuff. I went straight to top of the line, tight as possible gear, and it's fine.

Originally Posted by Frank.S

Id still by quality stuff, buying a z-suit and a blast shirt is not going to help anything

looser fitting / less aggressive designs are ideal I think. touching weights and getting squat depth is almost all in the head and a little technique. Yes, there is ballparks, but even so a 225lbs raw bench couild probally handle a medium fitting titan f6 which is a quality shirt. I imagine with some heavy board work + learning the shirt you would be at 300lbs pretty quick.

I'd still buy top quality gear too. Just a size looser if I couldn't handle it.

Z-suits won't be much harder to learn than a hardcore or a centurion imo. And Blast shirts suck so much, its not funny - I'd probably struggle to get 5kgs out of one from what people tell me. BUT Alco never mentioned z-suits and blast shirts, he could have just meant a decent cheap second hand suit or something to start with. Still I don't see a point, apart from saving money lol.

I know for the single ply gear I've used, I've been able to jump straight into the top quality, tightest gear possible, and get good carryover right off the bat. I think for multiply this would be different for the squats.

I agree Frank that the difference in bench shirts isn't as much as squat suits, but it is still there!