[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by Jean-Paul

But I'm actually more interested in why this kind of thing starts up in the first place. Why the backlash?

I notice that pros like Alwyn, Hartman, Cressey, etc seem to be left alone, and my guess is that it's because they have earned respect from a long history of delivering world-class content.

They are left alone for the most part. I do see some of them referred to as being part of a "circle jerk," promoting each others products. I don't really have a problem with it, their products are good and if they all believe in each other, what's the problem?

I think that the biggest problem for them, in some people's eyes, is that their names are associated to newer, younger trainers who might not be all that great in our eyes. They might be good trainers who know their shit, but who do stupid things, make poor products, and lack hubris.

On the other hand, there are the trainers who miss-use Ryan Lee's promotional methods with sloppy design and misguided hype, and it seems to me that perhaps the biggest problem is that they are trying to skip a crucial step of building a reputation slowly and developing credibility. It almost always backfires on them too.

If a new trainer can translate good training into good marketing and tap a market that others aren't, I have no problem with that. If one of the newer trainers here wrote a fat loss manual that was filled with common sense and sold it (even with that long, long, long style page), more power to him. There are tons of crappy ones out there, and I hope the new guy with a good product for the masses wins.

This is not at all a reflection on Jimmy's training skills. I'm sure as a CSCS he's pretty knowledgeable. He struck me when I met him as a sincere guy with a lot of ambition and potential. Actually, the problem I'm speaking of is much bigger than his site. We had this discussion in here recently.

It takes time to build a solid reputation, and a little hype and some contrived testimonials just don't make up for it.

He is knowledgeable. If you listen on the fitcast, he obviously knows what he's talking about, as do many of the new trainers around here.

A big issue for me is when they have a swelled head and lack of humility. An unwillingness to admit and correct a mistake (not just with this subject or with this guy, either). Instead, it's ignored and left to fester, or explained away, saying that "the forum readers are being too nitpicky" with the wording. Some of these guys write blogs and act like they've written a newspaper article that can never be corrected. Now that it's written, it has to stand. Nonsense. Go back and edit it and fix it (and make a reference to the "fix" if it's appropriate). Years from now, people will still find your mistake in google. You want that?

Also, they are often parroting what the "leaders" are saying and doing (or not doing).

Nothing against Bill Hartman or Nate Green, I've met them both, I like them, and I hope they do extremely well. But, and when AC and JP say Bill's the "smartest man in fitness" I get what they mean, but when a half dozen "new" guys start saying it, come on. How the f do they know? Come up with your own words, man. Talk about how Bill's help or concepts has allowed you to help your clients, instead.

When Alwyn says about Nate Green(paraphrasing), "Lookout for this guy. Nate is the next big thing" I put stock in it, but when you hear virtually the same words from trainers just out of or still in school, you roll your eyes. And, it does Nate a disservice, I think. Come up with your own words that are believable from your own level of reputation.

Leaving the forums, en mass. Hey, if the "leaders" want to leave, I don't have a problem. I understand why several left and I'll agree with their reasons. With some exceptions that we don't need to rehash, most left and didn't make a stink. But, their followers left a trail of complaining stink in their own wakes. The followers misquoted and misrepresented the "leaders" reasons quite a bit, too. Exaggerated them, in some cases. But, the real issue seams to be that they are followers and don't have minds of their own.

Finally (I think), not acknowledging the "masterminds." A few months back, in one week, I got about 9 emails selling me on the same product, using interviews with the same guy, etc. I asked a couple of them what was up with this; all at the same time? None would acknowledge that something was coordinated. "It's just a coincidence." Please. 9 emails with the same product (with their own affiliate links) and only slightly different wording. Pure coincidence... right. Again, no problem with the affiliating and reselling a good product (and none were pretending that it was their product, they all acknowledged reselling a good product, btw).


BTW, we've probably had these issues, in concept, since the middle ages, but there was no internet to really speed it up and bring it to the fore.