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Originally Posted by dos
Totally out of context. Even with little imbalances in a program....over time, these add up and up and up.....
Most people don't even have the same number of push to pull exercises let alone equal volumes / total loads. This is the problem that AC is talking about. Most programs have almost 2:1 push to pull exercises....this done day after day, week after week, month after month and it's no surprise that we have tons of folks with major shoulder problems/issues. BTW, show me how many guys can match 1RM's in their push to pull....even with a supported horizontal pull vs. say a bench press or a lat pulldown vs. a shoulder press....should be interesting. Besides won't your 1RM continue to increase if you keep doing more and more volume/loads therefore creating even greater imbalance?
Lastly, I wasn't saying that you shouldn't try to balance your exercises as much as possible as i am a huge proponent of this but as I mentioned in my earlier thread, for me to try to equalize my vertical push-pull I would have to perform something like 9 sets of shoulder presses to match my 3 sets of pull-ups....not gonna happen. Besides, my problem is not the norm (in terms of this much discrepency in volumes) as most posters will attest. Having a stronger pull than push is not the issue folks are going to the PT for.
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Robert, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying that I strive to keep in mind strength and volume when it comes to opposing movements. But I'm also saying that I'm currently not equal in either strength or volume and, like you I presume, I do not have "major shoulder girdle problems."
I would guess that >90% of lifters can bench more than they row and can pull more in a chin than they can overhead press. I would also guess that far fewer than 90% of lifters have "major shoulder girdle problems." They have imbalances that effect their posture and may make them susceptible to injury, but if they don't know that they have shoulder problems (and most folks don't even know this is a topic of conversation for fitness geeks) then these problems aren't what I would define as "major."
According to Alwyn, you and I will inevitably develop major shoulder girdle problems if we continue in our current programs. I'm saying that he's correct that potential exists for imbalances to lead to problems, but that he is overstating his case to say that these problems are inevitable in every case.
The "reductio ad absurdum" about walking to work is to illustrate that none of us will ever have truly equivalent balance in the volume of our push-pull work whether it's on opposing muscles at the hips, knees, shoulders, elbows, etc. It's obviously out of context (hence the use of the word "absurd") but I think it helps illustrate the point that worrying about an EXACT balance of volume in push/pull exercises would be silly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
I agree with everything you've said.
Best,
Adam